Scout-kun is a lie... right?

== Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

For public discussion of all things EXU2.

Moderator: Buff Skeleton

User avatar UTNerd24
Skaarj Warrior Skaarj Warrior
Posts: 71
Joined: 05 Oct 2013, 10:26

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 14 Apr 2018, 14:29

Tell EBM the TML is a godsend.
As for the scraps, you should make a function where they are drawn towards you at a short radius
I mean, I would myself, but I don’t know jack about directional gravity.
I'm what you'd call a "Wishful Thinker".

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018, 05:47

Yeah, like the new Doom. I had considered that, but it's a bit resource-intensive to do it in this game so it'll probably just stick to normal pickups. Fortunately, though, their collision radius is oversized, so you don't have to be right on them to grab them.

I also ended up having to make respawning creatures work through a beacon system. It was too difficult (and in some ways impossible) to make respawning + legless Krall + overlays all work together online. Using a beacon solves all of that. Respawn cancellation triggers still work too, since the respawn beacon keeps a string of the original instance on file, and the cancellation trigger notes the instance as well (storing it as a string there too). When it comes time to find beacons, it searches for all beacons in the map, then compares the stored instance strings. So you still just specify the instances in the list and bam, it handles all the rest itself.
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User avatar UTNerd24
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 20 Apr 2018, 08:26

Gotcha. By the way, I have the roadmap for my own SP project set. Should I wait for 7.3 First or nah?
I'm what you'd call a "Wishful Thinker".

User avatar FXANBSS
Skaarj Lord Skaarj Lord
Posts: 158
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Location: Heavland

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 24 Feb 2019, 01:00

The reason I haven't tried any of the CA maps yet are due to their volatile aspect, the idea in itself is not bad, I love that kind, but the way it works doesn't appeal to me that much, Shitstorm is the first map that introduces you to the real thing that this is, respawns and SuperbChargers patrolling, Frostclaw reaching its peaks with its characteristic respawning insanity.

I do love UT99's Monster Hunt gametype, it's just kill baddies from first to next room and on, but you don't have to struggle as much. As you can tell already, I love it as a cakewalk (if you reach the peak of skills) but sort of challenging at the same time

EXU2 kinda just breaks this and makes it frustrating for normal gameplay, because there are moments you just... can't survive.
Look, you can play it securely... but that's being slow... and that makes room for more monsters to spawn
the same goes when playing quickly, you can just suddenly land in a situation where you're just dsadjaskfsjfsafs-ed anyway
It is the same sensation that you can't do anything about it... it's monotone, tiring
WAIT, I can just play the whole thing in Easy but... it's underwhelming :lol:, OK, what i am really asking for is to get good weaponry that I can use normally and can last for an acceptable amount of time, like the Hyper Flakker in Infernal Falls, huge PLUS there :D OH, you know what you can do? read my advice dowwn below =D

Heh, sometimes it is true that someone can love a franchise and not play it..., DOESN'T MEAN ILL STOP EH, after completing a map in a short amount of time after so many tries, it is reaally fulfilling, see how I get so good at it but yet I die soooo many times, GOD, I love Infernal Falls, it is perhaps my favorite EXU2 map at the moment, you can just go ANYWHERE in the map and they gift you the GOD DAMN HYPER FLAKKER, it is also a REALLY BIG open area and it is full of goddies to collect and kill! Gorgeeous! And it doesn't get as random to be unfair, UNLIKE CA maps, and Shitstorm and some of the other EXU2 campaign maps.

Since right know I'm playing Shitstorm, as the tough map that it is, I accept it, it has plenty enough fun parts to mess with hopefully, that's charming :), but I feel there are plenty of places I end up skipping because there is no reason to go to them, and... IDK, why even try, they are frikin hard and IN THE END IT IS A GOD DAMN WASTE, the outside part of the map is empty too, OK there is that castle with the SK6 Missile Launcher but that's just a thing in the corner, which is really well built by the way... wow, just exceptional work there Waff, love the fog and that broken up place, and that hidden place which makes everything blow up in Co-op mode 8) haha
So

Here's my advice for Shitstorm:
-----------------------------------

About weaponry: LET MONSTERS DROP AMMO, NOT JUST ARMOR, in the long term that doesn't help shit, gimme JUICY PIDDLEDOPER AMMO, the EnergyAR is a god damn piece of shit (not in Soul Storage :>) and I only use it for sniping enemies or in very specific rare moments where there are many enemies in one line (ok in Shitstorm it isn't that much.. but i know a skip and it makes it kinda worthless, oof.. XD did u watch my video :P), the EnergyAR is also horrible for being criminally slow compared to the piddledoper's swiftness and the monsters that sometimes can be so god fucking damn NiNJASSES while they dance around you and you waiting like an idiot for your EnergyAR to recharge or hit THAT oh GOD, GOD, I CANT STTAND IT, MAKE THE PAIN STOP
About MORE STUFF: I suggest to add more land... THERE IS SO MUCH WATER I COULD MAKE IT AN UNDERWATER LEVEL ONLY jfc LOL
I mean, I think you can relate? You have been placing huge brutes in the rocks and that's about it, no more room for baddies and goddies, IT FEELS EMPTY, this ain't the shit you see in Infernal Falls, it'sssss a ssshame
add more land and then add your lovely brutes in there, OH and perhaps some goddies if I get there, like some combat/armor seeds that I HAVENT SEEN ANY lately lol.. just.. one combat seed.. in infernal falls.
so uuuh you gave me a shit ton flares and clusterfucker ammo in Infernal Falls, what's the shit you gift in Shitstorm? NOTHING? oh, the shit itself? WELL SHIT LOL
ik there's also the SK6 Launcher but to me this are extra battle flares, you can only use it in important situations which surprisingly there aren't much.. i already have like 10 cluster shock flares and 10-12 SK6 missiles m8, that's like 22, when will I USE THEM, in shitstorm I get to use 1 SK6 on that bitchy turbo queen, oh, and 1 cluster shock on a giant turbo gasbag

anyways take this as a grain of salt, just sayin'


that's all for now I think ^^ Take care :)
my brain is a potato chip

User avatar UTNerd24
Skaarj Warrior Skaarj Warrior
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 07 Apr 2019, 12:52

Really looking forward to the next update! This mod deserves more love!
I'm what you'd call a "Wishful Thinker".

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Posts: 4140
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 06:29

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User avatar FXANBSS
Skaarj Lord Skaarj Lord
Posts: 158
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Location: Heavland

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 17 Nov 2019, 06:58

welp what the hell, dunno what this is, but i'm on my knees
it is like those stupid foggy memories over again, in a good way

Edit: 17th? my birthday is november 19th!! :o
i'll take this as a best gift ^^
my brain is a potato chip

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 03:35

Soooooo to elaborate, I'm resuming development after an extensive hiatus. My interest in EXU is on a long, eccentric orbit, but it always comes back around eventually!

My plan right now is to focus on the campaign, polishing up existing maps and getting broken ones back into service (looking at you Highlands), plus maybe finally ship out some old but very much functional maps beyond 16.

I think when this stuff is ready, I'll release v8 so I can make vegetable juice jokes. There haven't been many major code changes since v7.2, so normally I'd just do a v7.3 and call it a day, but it's been so long since anything was released period that I think v8 sounds better. I don't expect there will be much difference in the code between the last patch and the next aside from maybe some performance improvements, so this patch will focus heavily on the maps.

I've been spending a lot of time with a bunch of the new retro FPSs: Dusk, Amid Evil, Ion Ma--err, Fury, and a ton of Doom wads I missed out on during their heyday. I've also been really enjoying watching Civvie11's videos on YouTube since he's pretty much in the same mindset as I am when it comes to FPSs, and his videos are both extremely entertaining and really insightful. He's got a knack for showcasing both what various games did wrong and what they did right, and it's really informative for any sort of designer. The biggest takeaway I've gotten from analysis like his is "respect the player's time" -- i.e. don't design levels or mechanics that will make people waste their time or feel like it wasn't well-spent. Seems simple enough, but doing it properly takes thought and consideration.

So for now, I'm mostly going back and working on ways to improve the feel of the game for both veterans and new players alike. One thing I've considered for a long time is a persistent powerup that lets you survive a death once it reaches full charge, and it charges up as you kill or damage things -- sorta like an extra life meter. Either it reloads your health and gives you fresh armor, or it warps you to (relative) safety. Maybe both?

Another thing I've recently thought up is a similar sort of thing where you can release some kind of wave that briefly highlights enemies across the map when activated, and it recharges automatically. A way to help people identify where enemies are so they can plan their approach, that sort of thing. EXU is full of maps with dull gray enemies placed against dull gray textures and everything's-orange-my-god styled levels, and something to help mitigate that would be nice. But I'm also going to be working on lighting for existing maps as well. Some might get brighter, while some might just have more emphasis placed on important areas, etc. Most of all, some of them just need more color.

Even on Unreal difficulty, I've noticed a lot of the existing maps have some obnoxious bullshit in places, like the Fuckoff Krall on those floating tables in Cursed Passage. They really don't add anything interesting to the level, and are ultimately just there to fuck you over if you don't spot them, which discourages bolder gameplay. This was never my original intent when I put them there, of course, but back then I didn't really consider the implications for things like that. Things like that need to go, or be reserved solely for coop duty. When you die, it should be because you really got outplayed, not because you just didn't scan every inch of the sky before walking into a big open area. Anything that requires you to slow way down or exploit weaknesses in the engine doesn't belong in a game all about massive carnage. Bullet sponge enemies especially are getting adjustments. Sometimes bullet sponges are useful for specific gameplay purposes, but they need to be used carefully so they aren't just an ammo sink with no other reason for existing.

I do think the Armor Scraps are going to help a lot with this overall effort, though -- just from my testing, they make a significant difference without tipping the scales too too much. Being rewarded for taking risks is definitely what I want, and scrap drops are heavily influenced by risk. They help keep you alive longer by prolonging armor longevity. You'll end up losing more of it if you take bigger (and more fun) risks, but that's also how you can end up making more of it back -- sometimes more than you spent!

Anyway, I have no idea what an ETA is looking like yet, and I'm going to be out of town for a couple of weeks pretty soon, and a lot of other stuff is going on in my life... but I'm definitely feeling the itch to work on this project again. Maybe the new wave of retro FPS enthusiasm will even bring more players -- who knows!


Oh, and the screenshot I posted? That's showing the new level exit seal, which is placed right before the end of each map (and it's animated). Usually it's obvious when a map is about to end in EXU because of the teleporter things, but I really liked the explicit transition warnings in Ion Fury, and figured it would be good to know you've gotten to the actual finish line with a simple, subtle-ish indicator. Basically, once you see that, the exit is imminent, so you'll want to turn around if you need to double back for items, etc.
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User avatar FXANBSS
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Location: Heavland

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 04:09

oh, wow

I would say this wait was pretty worth. our brute chef went for a big adventure and came back with big knowledge.!

Me too i've been looking at every corner.. maybe not much new games but YES i've been rocking it as well :tup:
my brain is a potato chip

UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7926
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 15:26

Aye, welcome back boss!

Buff Skeleton wrote:So for now, I'm mostly going back and working on ways to improve the feel of the game for both veterans and new players alike. One thing I've considered for a long time is a persistent powerup that lets you survive a death once it reaches full charge, and it charges up as you kill or damage things -- sorta like an extra life meter. Either it reloads your health and gives you fresh armor, or it warps you to (relative) safety. Maybe both?


I would say a health replenish, maybe with 2-3 seconds of mercy invincibility on top is the best. Anything that would encourage brute force tactics is good here.
Safety warping sounds super confusing, as in, you know, you suddenly die and then you're teleported somewhere else instead of an instant "new life" kicking in where you can spend all that time avenging yourself rapidly; it's more fun that way and doesn't dive into the aspect that the only true way to play EXU is to camp in a safe entrance spot and kill everyone from there.
Not sure how is this going to work for instant death pits and the likes (maybe a cap, so a single ultra-high damage instance won't trigger this powerup system).
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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 16:36

UBerserker wrote:Aye, welcome back boss!
I would say a health replenish, maybe with 2-3 seconds of mercy invincibility on top is the best.


Good point. And invincibility for a few seconds would be enough for you to GTFO from a bad situation if you were overwhelmed, but if you still couldn't escape, then you were truly fucked anyway! I guess it makes more sense not to be TOO easy on death, after all.

A damage cap also seems like a good idea. If the killing blow does more damage than you ever had health (like 1000+), then that's probably a candidate for just straight-up dying. I could probably make it configurable, too, and would aim to do so.

I want to avoid using instigator checks here since it's very, very often in EXU that what kills you is already dead by the time the projectile hits, and thus checking to see if there's an instigator would return none, same as if you'd fallen to your death or something. Insta-death pits would be the one place where warping to the nearest path node might work, but it's better for them to just outright kill you.

That said, you'll rarely ever see me design maps with those -- after playing Blasphemous, I loath insta-death pits and spikes with a furious passion now :lol: Ah what a shame, that game could have been soooooo good if the platforming wasn't aggressively unfun.
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UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
Posts: 7926
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:00

Subject: Re: == Version 7.2 [3-10-2018] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 18 Nov 2019, 21:22

Buff Skeleton wrote:
UBerserker wrote:Aye, welcome back boss!
I would say a health replenish, maybe with 2-3 seconds of mercy invincibility on top is the best.


Good point. And invincibility for a few seconds would be enough for you to GTFO from a bad situation if you were overwhelmed, but if you still couldn't escape, then you were truly fucked anyway! I guess it makes more sense not to be TOO easy on death, after all.

A damage cap also seems like a good idea. If the killing blow does more damage than you ever had health (like 1000+), then that's probably a candidate for just straight-up dying. I could probably make it configurable, too, and would aim to do so.

I want to avoid using instigator checks here since it's very, very often in EXU that what kills you is already dead by the time the projectile hits, and thus checking to see if there's an instigator would return none, same as if you'd fallen to your death or something. Insta-death pits would be the one place where warping to the nearest path node might work, but it's better for them to just outright kill you.

That said, you'll rarely ever see me design maps with those -- after playing Blasphemous, I loath insta-death pits and spikes with a furious passion now :lol: Ah what a shame, that game could have been soooooo good if the platforming wasn't aggressively unfun.


Other than death pits there could be also lava pits that don't immediately kill you. I guess the safety teleport thing could work there, in case you can't climb out of the pit no matter what (even if it kills you slowly).

One silly addition I always thought of was an item with a super low drop chance from any enemies: an immediate-and-one-use powerup that boosts your movement speed for a minute. However considering how absolutely fucked up is the movement code (altered in-game movement speed values are wacky, especially if you save/load games) I'm not sure if it'll ever be a good idea lol
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User avatar UTNerd24
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Subject: Re: == Version 7.3? [6-6-2066] Discussion ==

Post Posted: 22 Nov 2019, 05:05

Waff. Thank you so much. I honestly dont know what to say, other than sorry for the levels of obscurity I covered this mod in. It's just so relieving to see that things are going back into shape and EXU is still something you acknowledge. I wont bother with any ideas since I can probably make a couple things myself, but as long as you're not giving a shit about my past and most likely present, I can put my worries aside and enjoy yet another rendition of this glorious insanity that more people need to know about. What I will say though is that the Translocator's teleport effect seems to be absent. Unless that's intentional.

Also the fact that you made this post a few days after Valve announced TF2 was no longer being worked on for the time being is no coincidence. Almost like a sign for me to come back to my TRUE calling.
Waff and UB, Weather you read this or not, you're so talented and amazing for letting people experience Unreal in a whole new way.

Oh, Hi FXAN and Ividyon.

PS: On a side note, I was thinking of trying to make a DM version of some of your CA Maps, but that of course comes with the risk of breaking the map due to how Unreal Ed functions. So that's only a maybe.
I'm what you'd call a "Wishful Thinker".

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