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Unreal 3 & Single Player Level Creation

For questions and discussion about UnrealEd, UnrealScript, and other aspects of Unreal Engine design.

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User avatar Turboman
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Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 20:04

Raven wrote:We're going to make UT3 SP mod once TCO is done :).


if you do, i'm going to have to buy ut3

[size=0]oh and make it coop plz kthxbye![/size]

Kaka
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Post Posted: 03 Mar 2008, 22:51

Turboman wrote:
Raven wrote:We're going to make UT3 SP mod once TCO is done :).


if you do, i'm going to have to buy ut3

[size=0]oh and make it coop plz kthxbye![/size]


There will be sp, coop, and multiplayer modes. And buy UT3 already it's a really good game you know :P

User avatar cronodevir
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Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 05:29

Kaka wrote:
Turboman wrote:
Raven wrote:We're going to make UT3 SP mod once TCO is done :).


if you do, i'm going to have to buy ut3

[size=0]oh and make it coop plz kthxbye![/size]


There will be sp, coop, and multiplayer modes. And buy UT3 already it's a really good game you know :P


:o Lies!
I'm Garble and MrBlowtatoes

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 07:07

cronodevir wrote:
Kaka wrote:
Turboman wrote:
Raven wrote:We're going to make UT3 SP mod once TCO is done :).


if you do, i'm going to have to buy ut3

[size=0]oh and make it coop plz kthxbye![/size]


There will be sp, coop, and multiplayer modes. And buy UT3 already it's a really good game you know :P


:o Lies!

It's story sucks, not because it is the UT story (which is teh gay), but because it isn't even faithful to UT1's story anway. The gameplay is good, but everything else sucks. Lies indeed! :D

XYZ8000
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Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 12:58

cronodevir wrote:That would be nice.. i guess...but i'm not ever going to buy UT3...so :(


...so you could at least try it before being so negative about it? ;)

I fully agree that the story of UT3 won't be remembered as one of the most intriguing stories ever made but, really, what were you expecting from a multiplayer-oriented game which has never had any story to begin with? At least now the themes are all glued together pretty well and coherently, rather than the mess of themes that UT and UT2003/4 had.
If you're searching a touching story, I doubt the first game you'd look at would be a competitive FPS like UT. UT was never meant to be SP, the SP part of the game has always been a (long) tutorial.

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Post Posted: 04 Mar 2008, 13:57

TheIronKnuckle wrote:It's story sucks, not because it is the UT story (which is teh gay), but because it isn't even faithful to UT1's story anway. The gameplay is good, but everything else sucks. Lies indeed! :D


Yeah, it's not faithful to a nonexistant story :rolleyes:

UT3 tried to have one (like UC2's); then it's a MP game afterall.
Yeah, it's totally retarded, but like UT1 and UT2k3-4, it was just a way to make you learn the maps and strategies.
It's UT3, not U3.
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 06:40

At least now the themes are all glued together pretty well and coherently, rather than the mess of themes that UT and UT2003/4 had.

I hate it how everyone makes this out to be a good thing. The varied themes and stuff gave variety to the game, i prefered it this way. it means that individual levels felt even more individual.

Yeah, it's not faithful to a nonexistant story :rolleyes:


UT HAS a story, and ut3 is not faithful to it. Even if the story sucked i'm sure it would be (slightly) better recieved if it actually was relevent to the story established in the past games.

Kaka
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Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 09:44

I wouldn't refer to what UT had as story, rather a background, which was a great idea actually ( brutal tournament and all). Ut2k4 had a wrestling-like background which sucked, UT3 well is something between, it was supposed to be raw like UT, it's not because of the silly alien-attacking- earth thing.

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 10:04

Yes, I stand corrected. It has a good background, and no story. The story was elaborate enough (using the term elaborate loosely) to introduce a few points and characters that could be expanded on in sequals, (eg. xan's defeat, malcom winning, human skaarj war etc. ) but over all it is not really a "story".
UT3 has a story that is lame on its own and has minimal references to the UT1 side of unreals story. This wouldn't be bad, but as it is a sequel to UT, it should be going on the same lines as its prequel. If the game was called "unreal warfare" or something it would be acceptable. But "Unreal TOURNAMENT 3" indicates a tournament of some sort, which is not apparent.
It's like unreal 2. If that was called "Unreal: The awakening" it may have been better accepted and we would still be waiting on unreal 2.

Anyways...... UT2k4/3 mutilated the story by making it a "sport", where competitors enter willingly for prize money and whatnot, instead of "Gladiatorial Combat", where prisoners and the scum of the galaxy are forced to fight, with skaarj joining in every now and then for a quick roflmayonaise sandwitch.

Unreal ones story is really about as complex as UT's if you think about it. Unreal has a background. You have crashed on teh alien planet, escape!!! ESCAPE!!!?!?! UT's background is the gladiator thing.
Unreal has subplots like kira and other stuff. UT has subplots told in the level descriptions and characters bios.
unreal had a "story". You escape the planet, kill the queen etc.
UT also had a "story". You rise up the ladders and unseat Xan.

Mah final comment as i am losing concentration: UT3 = WTF???

User avatar cronodevir
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Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 18:56

...roflmayonaise sandwitch.
I'm Garble and MrBlowtatoes

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Post Posted: 05 Mar 2008, 19:30

TheIronKnuckle wrote:unreal had a "story". You escape the planet, kill the queen etc.
UT also had a "story". You rise up the ladders and unseat Xan.


UT3 also had a "story". You free your planet from the enemies, go to the enemy planet, kill Akasha.

Story is something that I hardly care nowadays. They can put everything in the story but as long as the gameplay/atmosphere is not good, then I'll have no interest with the game. Like what happened with BioShock :P

What do you expect from console games :D
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Post Posted: 07 Mar 2008, 06:28

UT3 also had a "story". You free your planet from the enemies, go to the enemy planet, kill Akasha.

:) Yes, so its story was about as good as UT1 and Unreal. Got me there. I would say that it was told in a more professional way, with cutscenes and all that, but not nescesarily in an as effective way as Unreal. Unreals translator messages were hacky, but certainly more effective at conveying a story then UT3.
Either way, UT3's story actually IS faithful to UT1, the only thing is that it doen't acknowledge the relationship very much. "Where is the fu*cking tournament!" should sum things up in that regard.

Gameplay is good though....... And that is what matters most. But i'm a person who likes a story, it doesn't have to be complicated, just consistant and containing interesting concepts. So epic failed here - by trying to make the story more complex, they made the story worse, and it has lost marks from me as a result.

Wail
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Post Posted: 07 Mar 2008, 10:08

My two cents:

UT3's SP story fails because its storytelling is bad, not because its story is bad.

It's important to make a distinction between the two, because most stories are actually quite simple. There's no reason a simple story, plot wise, cannot be effective if it's delivered well.

For example, the main areas where UT3 falls down to me are: Why does Reaper have a vendetta against Akasha? It's never explained in the story. Why would the Necris want Taryd anyway? It's not explained in the story. Why does Reaper assume Malcom betrayed him when he is on a planet full of enemies? This leap of logic is never explained.

Now, we can rationalize answers to these, but these are important points in driving the story that are never explained in the story itself. That is a big failing.

I'll also add that I think UT3 employs a Hollywood cinematic style in general, which might be good if you are only looking to make pretty scenes with cool explosions, but is bad for drawing the player into identifying with the main character, establishing mood and setting, and telling a story in an interactive medium.

For example, it strikes me that the first encounter you have with the Skaarj in Unreal would, in Unreal 3, be a cutscene. Maybe it would look cool, but it wouldn't be such a memorable experience. That is exactly what we get in UT3, a bunch of cutscenes showing the Necris arriving, stuff blowing up, etc. etc. They look good, but you've seen it all done before better in movies, so why should we care? If it happened in the gameplay, though, it'd be a different matter. Unfortunately Epic decided it wasn't worth the resources to even make passable attempts at a singleplayer experience in terms of actual gameplay, so instead we have botmatches with a veneer of character dialogue on top.

Even something like Unreal 2 employed, with putting the character into a between-missions-base where he can talk to NPCs would have been better in my eyes, even though it's inferior to unfolding the story naturally through level progression. At least with the Unreal 2 model you give the player control and allow him to possibly dig into the backstory a bit more than an action cutscene.
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