[ut] [RELEASED] RTNP: The Ultimate Edition

[Lightning Hunter]

With the changes I wouldn't really mind if the intermissions were cut altogether, given that they don't really add anything, and will fit less now that they won't even be after every level.

Does anyone else feel this way?

[Jet v4.3.5]

With the changes I wouldn't really mind if the intermissions were cut altogether, given that they don't really add anything, and will fit less now that they won't even be after every level.

Does anyone else feel this way?

If you're going to leave them in, completely redo the system behind it or something. I know the kill-count for each weapon is kinda neat, but with oldskool, it's useless (as there's already a creature kill count built into the score screen with F2). The big things that I find most important are the messages pertaining to the overall story, such as the signal you intercept while in the Prometheus, right before the space marine fight, though it's not actually an intermission, as I understand it. I really don't have a definite stance. On one hand, the intermissions were actually relatively enjoyable the first few times I played RtNP, but on the other hand, they take away the effect of the "silent protagonist". Also, if they were to be removed, other, non-intermission dialogue from the player, would sound scarce and misplaced since there would be a lack of such dialogue anywhere else within the pack.

[Lightning Hunter]

I honestly think I should just leave in the intermissions. Players can skip them anyway, and they aren't harming anything. The voice acting isn't great, but I don't despise it like I do in ONP - which I already personally removed all voice acting from in my own copy.

I have one more question for everyone. The general consensus is that the Space Marine battle is very weak. What is it that everyone personally dislikes about it?

[UB_]

Unfortunately the story in RTNP is pretty much covered in those intermissions and not in the levels.
The Space Marines act like bots and shouldn't be stronger and faster than Skaarj Troopers. I mean, come on, if they are so strong why they dropped P849 to the surface instead of doing themselves the job?

[Lightning Hunter]

Unfortunately the story in RTNP is pretty much covered in those intermissions and not in the levels.

Right. Another good reason to leave them in. I edited my post above, UB. Check it again.

Edit: Haha, it seems we are both editing posts.

[Frieza]

Maybe think of another way to get that information in the game. Like the player intercepting the transmission on some piece of equipment somewhere, etc.

I think the intermission were a bit meh, and especially now that you're adding more maps they will look even more out of place.

[Lightning Hunter]

There is a class that was included with Dinwitty's mod called a "raider" (a human pirate) that I used extensively in Fhub6 and Cryox (mostly for scripted sequences). This class is much more like a Skaarj Trooper, and less like a bot. I can always try to make the Space Marines more like this class. That would probably make them more fun and less bot-like.

Maybe think of another way to get that information in the game. Like the player intercepting the transmission on some piece of equipment somewhere, etc.

I think the intermission were a bit meh, and especially now that you're adding more maps they will look even more out of place.

I understand what you are saying, but that is something I can't just come up with without spending many, many extra hours on the mod. I don't have that kind of Uscript knowledge, and I'm not about to learn it. I don't think it's a huge deal having no cutscenes in the new maps, becuase they are basically just part of the players adventure of the planet (like the original Unreal). They are like side-quests, and don't need extra intermissions.

[Semfry]

Yeah, when I think about it the problem with removing between level intermissions is that there are still a couple of in-game sequences like the part before the Space Marine fight.

Like Frieza said, you could always change things a bit so it's conveyed through other means. Of course, if you went that far you may as well change RTNP's story in general to make it more coherent (and fit with the new maps).

Edit: Making the Marines a bit easier would also help make them have more potential uses later without being sudden difficulty spikes.

[Lightning Hunter]

Like Frieza said, you could always change things a bit so it's conveyed through other means. Of course, if you went that far you may as well change RTNP's story in general to make it more coherent (and fit with the new maps).

At that point, this would start becoming more like Dinwitty's mod, which wasn't looked upon too favorably. Once you start changing stuff like that, then people expect everything else to be changed (like placement of Pawns, etc.). My original goal was to keep the RTNP game play and story intact. I just wanted a conversion for UT that included the beta maps in finished form. I don't mind adding a few messages here and there that connect the old maps with the new ones, of course. The new maps really don't take anything away from the story. They are merely extra detours to get where you are going (with their own subplots of course).

If anyone thinks of a way to remove the RTNP intermissions, while keeping the story intact without a heavy amount of scripting OR rebuilding the original RTNP maps, then I'm all ears. I'm definitely not prepared to perform rebuilds on all the RTNP maps, or go through hours of scripting.

[Semfry]

From what I recall, the only in-game conversation was at the Prometheus; you could always remove the cutscene and tweak it a little so the important parts are conveyed through translator messages instead. That shouldn't require any rebuilding. Then there's just a few plot points to cover (like the escape pod being at the castle) in messages elsewhere, which could pretty much be done purely through actors with no rebuilding.

[Lightning Hunter]

From what I recall, the only in-game conversation was at the Prometheus; you could always remove the cutscene and tweak it a little so the important parts are conveyed through translator messages instead. That shouldn't require any rebuilding. Then there's just a few plot points to cover (like the escape pod being at the castle) in messages elsewhere, which could pretty much be done purely through actors with no rebuilding.

The other problem I can think of is some of the stuff explained in intermissions. For example, some players might be wondering why the marines attacked them, since there were no intermissions explaining how they had betrayed you. At that point, you assume they are still helping you out, when they are attacking you all of a sudden (and no explanation of betrayal afterward).

[Lightning Hunter]

Ok, I just now realized the Space Marines aren't holding any weapons... I searched for hours to find the cause of this, but with no luck. Does anyone have any idea why this is? The original RTNP2UT was like this, also.

[Torquemada]

Thanks all for the explanations.

RTNP didn't force you into being a female character. You could choose Male or Female and there was voice acting for both genders.

Whoa, somehow I managed to completely miss that.

Anyway, yeah the VA took away some of the immersion -- the "silent protagonist" effect as Jet put it. I remember firing to stop the intermissions, but even the short start of each was a distraction, and I guess I wanted/needed to see the info in them anyway, so I didn't stop all of them. (Or maybe I was just reflexively wary of missing any content, good or bad. )

Well, no matter, I'll definitely play it, and no doubt enjoy it very much regardless of any small distractions. But is it hard to make the voice optional? Like, 4 character choices out of Male/Female and Voiced/Silent, or something like that? I actually wouldn't mind the intermissions if they were text-only. But I honestly don't have any idea how much work or story-telling issues elsewhere this would entail. And all in all, no such a big issue, especially as this time I'm prepared for it.

As to the end fight, I for one was quite pleased with it. I understand that U1 had to have the Queen to culminate the story, but I don't actually need the classic-format End Boss for every adventure. Some other kind of accomplishment, like solving how to activate your escape vessel or something non-combat like that, might do just as well. So from my corner you don't have any urgent need to "fix" it. Surely do if you come up with something grand!

Again, best wishes to the project, Lightning Hunter and others, I'm really looking forward to it.

[Lightning Hunter]

Well, if someone knows an easy way to add scrolling text over an intermission, then I can possibly do that (if people really dislike the voice acting).

[integration]

Actually the intermissions were the main reason, why you have to use UPakConsole and a UPakPlayer in RTNP2UT. The text you hear is also saved in the transmissions, but I never managed to configure RTNP, so that I can see it. That cutscene in the UMS Prometheus is done by just changing the playerpawn's viewtarget, so for it you don't need the UPakConsole and a UPakPlayer.

Idk whether you could use Oldskool, when you would drop (or change) the intermissions. Perhaps it would be a problem with the different gametypes (Crashsitegame, Duskfallsgame).

BTW perhaps you could change the end. The end is a little bit bizarre. Suddenly you enter a shuttle you haven't seen before and you don't have to defeat marines.