ividyon will never get this done, will he.

Seven bullets -> 227 platform conversion

For discussion and promotion of Unreal Engine single-player campaigns, mapping projects and total conversions.

Moderators: Semfry, ividyon

User avatar Mister_Prophet
Red Nemesis Leader Red Nemesis Leader
Posts: 3098
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 23:30
Location: Lost in Oraghar

Subject:

Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010, 19:02

I halted testing of the maps I was sent after my last bug report. I heard no reply so I did not continue testing. If a 3rd party oldskool port is being made for 227 that means that a direct version of Seven Bullets would be able to be played on 227, and given the nature of things needing fixing in this conversion that I noticed in my last test, an oldskool version would likely still be preferable in my opinion, unless Jackrabbit cares to continue this regardless and attempt a full non-oldskool version that plays just as good as intended. My stance is that I will support it as long as it runs at the same standards for which it was made back in 2005, on oldskool.

User avatar zYnthetic
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 510
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 00:10

Subject:

Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010, 19:15

I really doubt it was personal on any level. It's likely that porting OldSkool to 227 was always part of the plan because without it there's a lot of high profile content that would not run. It's a lot easier to port the framework once instead of every sp that uses it.
Image

User avatar jackrabbit
Skaarj Elder Skaarj Elder
Posts: 1014
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:23

Subject:

Post Posted: 02 Feb 2010, 20:22

All I know is that in the process of converting OldSkool -> 227, dots may or may not have had some similar problems to what I had with the weapon functionality. (Other bugs submitted in the bug report you sent me are very minor in comparison and can be fixed without any problems). The weapons are what dots was forced to change in the 227 version of botpack. So even if OldSkool is converted and released on 227, good luck getting the UT Seven Bullets SevenB.u package working properly...

What I'm saying is this: Any functions in the SevenB.u weapons that may overwrite the superclass OldSkool weapons functions are prone to break the weapon completely.

This is another very good point on why having OldSkool as a base in 227 is VERY BAD IDEA.

This is why i'm just going to sit back and wait and see what happens after this OldSkool 227 package is released. Most likely what will happen is everyone will realize that "so and so pack is not loading properly under oldskool" and then a demand for this (and other UT SP conversion projects) will be met in the future.

If not, I'm fine with continuing running SB (and other UTSP packs) under the UT platform. I'd honestly prefer creating my own content for 226b anyway.

User avatar ElectricIce
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 729
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 20:42
Location: Somewhere lost in Na-Pali
Contact:

Subject:

Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010, 07:26

It's a shame though, creating for 226b since only the ones with 226 and 227? can play it, But I'm not sure if players still use 225 anymore but still. well you don't have any other version right?

User avatar jackrabbit
Skaarj Elder Skaarj Elder
Posts: 1014
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:23

Subject:

Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010, 07:35

{WINGS}Zombiehunter wrote:It's a shame though, creating for 226b since only the ones with 226 and 227? can play it, But I'm not sure if players still use 225 anymore but still. well you don't have any other version right?


Wrong. I have installed every version of Unreal you can think of. I simply believe that 226b is the best Unreal Engine 1 version in existence. I develop under 226b simply because of my own personal opinion about it. If it works in UT or if it works in 227, that's fine........ if it doesn't, I really don't care. Someone else can port my work for me if they feel the need to do so.

I mean, you could criticize me for my opinion, but you might as well be criticizing all the other developers on this forum who have also made their own personal opinions about the best platform to run SP campaigns for Unreal. Its a real tragedy that there is not one single Unreal platform to run it all (what 227 should be), instead becomes a big hack that no-one wants to deal with in the end.

This conversion problem was an attempt to 'fix' my foreseen nightmares of having a version of OldSkool for 227. Seven Bullets should run from the base classes of 227 and 227 only. No bullshit dependencies from other packages, just the main ones that come with stock 227. Apparently some of the Unreal 227 devs don't understand where I come from here (hence the reason I have given up supporting the patch).

Do I think the UT Seven Bullets version is fine the way it is? hell yes. It works flawlessly and was done in a way that actually makes Old Skool look "good". The problem is when you load it up in the editor and see the terrible hierarchy that was created in the process. For artistic purposes (which I'm sure Mr. Prophet had in mind at the time), he probably didn't care about how the hell the class structure was released with the pack. This is what I wanted to change with the 227 version. I wanted to make the class structure more fundamental and easier to work with for others who might want to expand upon what was already done with Seven Bullets. I've already effectively done this (for the most part excluding weapons), but hell if I'm going to release my work publicly to support the 227 patch. But afterall, it isn't even up to me.. because its not my content. If someone from Red Nemesis decides to pick up my work from where I left off and finish what I started, good for them. They have every right to release it to the 227 community and I wont complain one bit.

Until people start realizing the flaws that come with porting OldSkool to 227, I really don't have to initiative to continue what I have started here. It seems pointless.

User avatar zYnthetic
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
Posts: 510
Joined: 12 Nov 2007, 00:10

Subject:

Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010, 11:14

7B isn't going to run from 227 alone unless the custom actors it uses were for some reason incorporated into it, which would be quite an odd thing to do; adding functionality into the main codebase to support a single title.

Adding OldSkool support seems to be the most logical thing to do considering the amount of releases this would make available at once. Backwards compatibility, which is essentially what is happening w/ OldSkool, doesn't have to be pretty. It only needs to provide functionality for running obsolete code. The end result is a unified client capable of running releases built from any version of the engine.

Besides, I wouldn't call a messy package tree terrible. I don't think there's been any players bothered by it at all. As far as dev branches from 7B, it's never happened so why would it happen now? Besides, with RD coming out the 7B framework is completely obsolete. Not that this alone is enough to stop everyone but anyone working on something should understand that in choosing platforms they take the good with the bad.
Image

User avatar Buff Skeleton
>:E >:E
Posts: 4173
Joined: 15 Dec 2007, 00:46

Subject:

Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010, 15:05

jackrabbit wrote:I simply believe that 226b is the best Unreal Engine 1 version in existence.

ahhahahhahahahahaha

User avatar jackrabbit
Skaarj Elder Skaarj Elder
Posts: 1014
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 21:23

Subject:

Post Posted: 03 Feb 2010, 17:47

@Zyn

If BotPack.u for 227 was 1-to-1 from Unreal Tournament, your logic would work fine. I'm telling you, 227's BotPack is not 1-to-1 with UT, so workarounds for each individual pack cannot be avoided. In one form or another, each .u included with a mappack will have to be modified for 227. Why not just remove the OldSkool dependencies and use base classes instead?

I was able to do it for Seven Bullets in 227 (besides the creature carcasses that disappeared). That would really need to be the only class that I would have to copy/paste from the oldskool package to finish the conversion. It is very possible for me to get the weapons working properly without taking any OldSkool weapon code. It requires some rewrites, but its really not all that bad if you know how to make good custom weapons in Unreal (something I am not).

@Waff

You'd be surprised what 3dfx + GlideWrapper can achieve on a stock Unreal Anthology Unreal Gold set.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
Red Nemesis Leader Red Nemesis Leader
Posts: 3098
Joined: 11 Nov 2007, 23:30
Location: Lost in Oraghar

Subject:

Post Posted: 04 Feb 2010, 07:12

Jackrabbit wrote:Do I think the UT Seven Bullets version is fine the way it is? hell yes. It works flawlessly and was done in a way that actually makes Old Skool look "good". The problem is when you load it up in the editor and see the terrible hierarchy that was created in the process. For artistic purposes (which I'm sure Mr. Prophet had in mind at the time), he probably didn't care about how the hell the class structure was released with the pack.


That's fair. At the time if you had asked me if I thought there would be a patch made within the community to expand the original game enough to make it as fruitful for SP mappers as UT, I would have dismissed it by saying something like, "Yeah? When?" There's also the fact that when we were making it I basically gave UsAaR33 full support with the code as long as everything he did worked for us (meaning, worked for UT). I didn't know the technical stuff of what was being done at the time...not that I know much about that sort of stuff now (although it's a different ballgame now, and things like this are being handled with better care for our current projects).

Really, if you want me to be perfectly honest here...I'm just not totally sold on the idea that 7B would really work very well on Unreal. I know I supported your little attempt to port it here and all, but I was not nearly as convinced as you were that it would be worthwhile. 7B was made a certain kind of way for a certain group of players at a certain kind of time. Whether someone tries to do a port of it for Unreal...be it you or someone trying to get this Oldskool plugin for 227 to work, I think it's a lot of work either way. The version I tested last (the one you sent) was hardly without its issues, but it was close.

If you honestly want to abandon the project, I can see why. If this plugin comes out for 227g and it has the problems you think it will, perhaps some effort could be made to fix those issues. Whether someone else does it, whether you do it...I'm not sure either party will have an easy job of it. It will be a hard pack to port either way. That's why we're not doing it. That's why, when we were ready to come back to 7B...we were going to gut the hell out of the old girl and rerelease her proper, with RD's spine as a base.

Previous

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 35 guests

Copyright © 2001-2024 UnrealSP.org

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited