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[RELEASED] Unreal: Forgotten Version 1.3

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User avatar Sinistral
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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 22:32

Is there something different about 227 distance fog? Because based on the BFNP implementation I experimented with it should be exactly the same as regular fog but add to performance (where relevant) rather than taking it away, such that it completely obsoletes regular fog (with the possible exception of small patches of it, as I didn't try that, and I'm not sure I saw it tried elsewhere either).


I think jackrabbit is talking about 227 distance fog similar to what is shown below in the forthcoming Stargate Unreal.

Image

The fog stays a constant distance from the player, you can walk and walk, but never actually be IN the fog. I guess it's possible to mix this with unreals standard "volume fog".

Kaka - think link is http://www.smstributes.co.uk/sinistral/ ... gotten.htm

Kaka
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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 22:39

Thanks!

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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 22:44

I'd agree that fog looks pretty ugly; it must be a 227 distance fog thing, since I don't recall any problems like that with the version I tried.

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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 22:59

That does look terrible indeed, even more due to the unlit torches in the horizon.
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User avatar Jet v4.3.5
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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 23:12

You can change the color and fading range (transparet fog for a certain distance instead of solid fog you can't see through). I've been able to put together some of my own and it's so mild you might not even notice the effect.
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User avatar ividyon
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Post Posted: 16 Mar 2010, 23:47

Distance fog is... well, distance fog. Density and color can be configured in the Zone properties. The particular screenshot you're referring to is non-optimal since the fog is way too strong, starts way too close to the player and doesn't fit with the skybox, but that's up to the individual level designer to change and shouldn't be used as a base for judgement. What exactly about BFNP distance fog makes it different? Also 227 weather effects aren't as limited as some may assume. Particle removing actors can be used to eliminate unwanted weather particles getting into houses (if they dont already get filtered out by collision with the roof/walls), multiple emitters can combine snow flake particles with bigger snow clouds obstructing sight, decals or splash effects can be spawned upon particle collision with geometry, distance fog can be used to obscure sight etc.

The current weakness of 227 mapping is that it comes with very little artistic assets, prefabs or examples of what can be achieved with the emitters and other new effects. Mappers are left to configure them completely on their own, which may not always show the full potential of the code because there's so little existing stuff to learn from. 227 really needs a big, shiny representative pack using lots of the new mechanics!

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Post Posted: 17 Mar 2010, 00:29

And tutorials in general. I've had to ask the individual coders what their classes do and how to configure them on many occasions.
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Doublez-Down
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Post Posted: 17 Mar 2010, 14:43

Sinistral wrote:I think your thinking about this a little too deeply, this is a game at the end of the day, snow effects are there to set a theme, nothing more. You are rating my pack on something that I didn't create - talk to the 227 devs if you feel the weather emitter is inadequate. I know the snow doesn't get any deeper and I know it doesn't stick to the player, and I know occasionally it snows indoors or under a ledge where you would think it shouldn't snow. With the way the weather effect is currently implemented it covers entire zones, as a mapper you must make a decision every time you zone off a tiny little house/shed you could be drastically reducing the performance of your level. Looking back now I do question some of the areas where I chose not to create a new zone, but nothing is perfect.


I understand what you're saying. Compromises have to be made. My main point is that mappers (you, me, whomever) seem to want to implement a new or cool effect just because they can, regardless of whether or not it actually works well. And we can't just use something, have it not work well (imho) and then blame the modeler or developers of the effect because it doesn't look natural. It's still up to the mapper or level designer to implement the tool or not. Again, just my humble opinion, I thought the map would've still been fine without the snow. Others like the snow, so to each his own. Just me, but the second I saw sheets of snow pelting me inside a house, I would have either fixed it or just not used it.

And (not arguing, just asking), I thought zoning off houses/sheds would optimize performance not reduce it? I mean that's typically one of the main purposes of zoning off a section right?

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Post Posted: 17 Mar 2010, 14:47

Zoning is good for some things, but there's a limit of 64 zones per level to keep in mind (though this could be gone in 227).

User avatar Sinistral
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Post Posted: 19 Mar 2010, 22:57

I understand what you're saying. Compromises have to be made. My main point is that mappers (you, me, whomever) seem to want to implement a new or cool effect just because they can, regardless of whether or not it actually works well. And we can't just use something, have it not work well (imho) and then blame the modeler or developers of the effect because it doesn't look natural. It's still up to the mapper or level designer to implement the tool or not. Again, just my humble opinion, I thought the map would've still been fine without the snow. Others like the snow, so to each his own. Just me, but the second I saw sheets of snow pelting me inside a house, I would have either fixed it or just not used it.

And (not arguing, just asking), I thought zoning off houses/sheds would optimize performance not reduce it? I mean that's typically one of the main purposes of zoning off a section right?


I guess we just have a difference of opinion here, I used the effect because I thought it was adequate for the function I wanted it to perform. Nobody is blaming anything on anyone here, I am overall pretty happy with the levels and the effects provided by the 227 team. But weather in games is still just a gimmick at the end of the day.

As mentioned previously, I am working on a 1.1 version, which will attempt to address the negative points the pack has received, including the weather FX, but I won't be stripping them out all-together. Perhaps with more time spent on understanding how they work I can get it looking better for everyone.

And with regard to zoneing I'm working for this original statment found on http://unreal.epicgames.com/Zones.htm

For zones whose purpose is only to speed up the engine, your goal is to divide your level up into zones while introducing portals whose overall area is as small as possible. The smaller the portals, the less work the engine must do to process the portals. Therefore, we place our portals in passageways which naturally separate large areas, such as doorways and hallways. This approach causes the level to be divided up well, without adding too much portal area.

There is no benefit (and often a performance penalty) to placing portals in the middle of large rooms. These huge portals usually eat up more CPU time being processed than they save. Stick portals in doorways, hallways, and other narrow passages.

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Post Posted: 21 Mar 2010, 19:17

Okay, we're thinking the same with regard to zones then. Zoning houses and sheds off from the outside world should provide a benefit vice a performance drop.

User avatar Sinistral
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Subject: Re: [RELEASED] My Unreal SP Project - Forgotten

Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010, 21:14

Hi guys

I'm looking for some people willing to playtest a new Beta version of the pack. If anyone is interested can you please PM/email or leave a message here and I'll supply a download link?

Thanks

Andrew

User avatar Shivaxi
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Subject: Re: [RELEASED] My Unreal SP Project - Forgotten

Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010, 22:15

yeah i'll give it a go...got nothin better to do atm...
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User avatar Sinistral
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Subject: Re: [RELEASED] My Unreal SP Project - Forgotten

Post Posted: 08 Jun 2010, 22:36

Thanks Shivaxi - PM sent.

User avatar jackrabbit
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Subject: Re: [RELEASED] My Unreal SP Project - Forgotten

Post Posted: 09 Jun 2010, 06:17

I'd like to give it a shot as well.

:D PM me with link plz.

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