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[ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

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User avatar Delacroix
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 00:40

Sorry about thread necromancy, people, but...
As per to this post, the project HAS indeed been cancelled and thus does not belong in Upcoming Maps at all. Good to know that at least editor Dave's work will see the light of day in Unforchers.
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User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 12:28

Well then, out with it!

A shame, really; Creavion's jungle environments were really something else. God only knows what beef he had with the single-player community.
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User avatar AlCapowned
Skaarj Warlord Skaarj Warlord
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 14:30

One of his releases (can't remember which, but it was primarily a MonsterHunt map) didn't get enough attention for his liking and he thought he was actively being ignored by the community.

User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 26 Sep 2013, 21:52

Pity, those jungle beta maps were promising.
Just had a look again at some of those posted pictures and it's a damn shame he lost interest. I'm fairly sure we missed out on some "different" mapping.

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 00:08

He's a brilliant mapper, but I swear I've never met a more angsty, pessimistic, standoffish person online. All the posts I can recall reading from him are complaining (note: complaining, not musing or pondering) about the death of Unreal/UT, and how great maps aren't being made any more. Total hogwash imo :p iirc his sig for the longest time was a personal statement about how he's sick of mapping for UT, and never going to map for Unreal SP again.

I might be wrong and he's the nicest guy ever, would love to be proven wrong as he's very skilled with this engine; but that's nevertheless the impression I find implanted at the back of my mind. Mention Creavion and that's the image I get: An extremely talented, but extremely rude tortured artist. We're probably missing out on a lot more than just Vandoras Secret Passage. His call tho :)

edit: just did a forum search and Google stalk to try and change my opinion, as I hate not liking someone. Unfortunately my stance has only been reinforced by what I've found. (Except for this one thread where jackrabbit was being a tool to him)
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User avatar Dr.Flay
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 08:23

We keep in contact, and I get to see textures and stuff he is working on.

I told him often, I think I would rather see someone of his ability move up to the newer engines, as U1 projects held him back. Which it has done.
He is now learning new skills and developing further.

He will make a fine addition to anyones UDK project.

User avatar editor Dave
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 27 Sep 2013, 19:58

TheIronKnuckle wrote:He's a brilliant mapper, but I swear I've never met a more angsty, pessimistic, standoffish person online. All the posts I can recall reading from him are complaining (note: complaining, not musing or pondering) about the death of Unreal/UT, and how great maps aren't being made any more. Total hogwash imo :p iirc his sig for the longest time was a personal statement about how he's sick of mapping for UT, and never going to map for Unreal SP again.

Just to clear things up from a psychological perspective (my guess, I'm not a prefessional, nor will be :P).
Creavion has been a mapper for a very long time before he released something publically. I believe it was like 2004 or something? He started with mapping for SP, because he embraced the atmosphere of that. He even led a map pack project called Unreal Skaarj Unleashed, which was canceled for whatever reason (it was before I discovered Unreal). First failure in SP. Then he mapped in the background for various projects, one of which was Antalius. But that one was a beast, as he remade it several times (wasn't satisfied during the progress or due to performance issues). Second failure in SP. Then he started the famous ut99.org mapping project, in attempt to surpass the first one, searching for something different and taking a break from his sp trials. Contrary to his former projects, this was a huge success and he could finally release six maps. Win for MP. After that, he was the tester for the 227 patch, he probably did the best job, as he seemed to be often being yelled at for that. Another annoyance for SP. When one of the final patches was released (I believe it was 227g yet), he asked for a conversion for UT, so a possible 3rd ut99.org-map pack could use the new features. Smirftsch promised long, long he would do that, but never actually showed a demo or something, so the assumption arose, he might have never started it (as he hates UT because of its gameplay). The connection teared apart. Malus for Unreal again. And some time in between he released Antalius, to show case his SP/MH effort with jungles, in order to make something better for Vandora's Secret Passage, and for his opinion he hasn't got enough feedback and figured it might be sort of a conspiracy against him, as AlCapowned has mentioned. The thing that resonates as well, was the discussion about his forum avatar which he used for a short time and was debated about as long.
The reasons I see are:
Past failures in SP mapping.
Lack of spirit to finish an SP map.
Too many ideas, too little time.
Success of creating MP maps.
The community being not as supportive as he'd like it to be.
When he realized the latter, he was complaining for like one or two years, until he decided to quit attending the forums ( as TIK remembers).

It's really sad, as we lost a very talented and original mapper. But I can say there's a mind blowing project in the making by Mr. Tom and mr hapflinger that you won't expect ;) They kind of keep me motivated to map as well, but I need more kicks in the butt to actually be as productive as I was in 2009/2010...
Prisons of the Unforchers Retold - more info: https://www.unrealsp.org/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4565

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 00:10

SP mapping isn't for everyone. I think a big part of mapping for me was always what I liked to play more was what I liked to map. I made a bunch of DM levels for UT before I released SP,and while I really like UT's multiplayer gameplay I simply prefer jumping into a SP level or playing COOP. I've talked to Creavion sparingly over the years but at one point he was even in talks with me to work on RD some time back when he was still active on this forum. I know feedback was an issue for him, but the impression I always got was that he enjoyed making levels more than maybe playing the game, and for a lot of people who use the unreal engine as a stepping stone that's how it is. I could be wrong on this assumption, but anyways the clarification of project status is always helpful even if it's bad news.
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Doublez-Down
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 28 Sep 2013, 19:27

I can relate, to a degree, to some of what Creavion feels. It can be somewhat frustrating to work on a project for months, release it, and only have a handful of players play it, let alone comment on it. It can make people (myself included) get a "what's the point" feeling. I'm in the category of where I like to build more than play as well.
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User avatar salsaSkaarj
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 01 Oct 2013, 21:02

Doublez-Down wrote:It can be somewhat frustrating to work on a project for months, release it, and only have a handful of players play it, let alone comment on it.

From what I see on the other forums, interest in SP packs is a lot less than in multiplayer maps. I fear the SP era is coming to an end but I'll try to postpone that as long as possible by commenting on just about every map which is mentioned here (oops, small caveat; U or UT SP maps).

User avatar Delacroix
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 01 Oct 2013, 21:20

It's not that SP era is coming to an end. For many years prior to my introduction to the Unreal scene, I've been downloading stuff and playing silently, w/o commenting on anything. Most of our audience is just that, don't be fooled ;)
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I am the Unreal archivist and historian. If you have something from the past of Unreal that I don't have, do tell.

Doublez-Down
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 02 Oct 2013, 16:15

Delacroix wrote:It's not that SP era is coming to an end. For many years prior to my introduction to the Unreal scene, I've been downloading stuff and playing silently, w/o commenting on anything. Most of our audience is just that, don't be fooled ;)


While I agree, I also surmise that unless comments/reviews/feedback gets better (and by better I mean more of it), mappers may start to lose interest in mapping - or at least in mapping and releasing their content. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but when I create something, I'd say 90% of it is so the community can play it and tell me what they think. Of course mapping is fun in general, but it's more fun (imo) when feedback is more abundant.
I swear to god this forum isn't going to evaporate into ether within the next hour or so. - Bug Horse

User avatar AlCapowned
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 02 Oct 2013, 16:55

Doublez-Down wrote: It can be somewhat frustrating to work on a project for months, release it, and only have a handful of players play it, let alone comment on it. It can make people (myself included) get a "what's the point" feeling.


I've felt that way in the past and think it's perfectly understandable. The difference between that and how Creavion feels is that he thinks that the community is against him on a personal level, even though the community is really just shrinking and fewer people play and comment on stuff.

User avatar Legendslayer222
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 02 Oct 2013, 19:48

Doublez-Down wrote:
Delacroix wrote:It's not that SP era is coming to an end. For many years prior to my introduction to the Unreal scene, I've been downloading stuff and playing silently, w/o commenting on anything. Most of our audience is just that, don't be fooled ;)


While I agree, I also surmise that unless comments/reviews/feedback gets better (and by better I mean more of it), mappers may start to lose interest in mapping - or at least in mapping and releasing their content. Maybe I'm just speaking for myself, but when I create something, I'd say 90% of it is so the community can play it and tell me what they think. Of course mapping is fun in general, but it's more fun (imo) when feedback is more abundant.

I was going to say something like this but wasn't sure how to word it. I mess around in the unreal editor fairly often, but I don't generally put in the serious time and devotion to make something worth releasing unless there is say a contest on and a lot of hype and activity on the forums.

radios
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Subject: Re: [ut] Vandoras Secret Passage

Post Posted: 05 Oct 2013, 02:05

Doublez-Down wrote:I can relate, to a degree, to some of what Creavion feels. It can be somewhat frustrating to work on a project for months, release it, and only have a handful of players play it, let alone comment on it. It can make people (myself included) get a "what's the point" feeling. I'm in the category of where I like to build more than play as well.
I think some of that is because some maps have been developing for years, and not released, so members will check the topic for awhile, see that it's not released, and sometimes many months later, recheck it to see what's up. I think what's needed is a bar on the top of the page notifying when a new release is made, so we can check it. I've been surprised many times to notice something has been released months ago, and just finding out about it :shock: the reason is I sort of give up checking for a while, since it's repetitive, (check the topic, it's not released)..

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