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Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 19 Jan 2014, 19:11
by Buff Skeleton
The bigass v6.00 patch is like six months late as usual, but also as usual has been packed with so much more brain-melting discord than intended that it'll definitely be worth the wait. The changelog is like three pages long, and that's just highlights.

So, here's our status:

I've been holding off on releasing v6.00 because I intended to not put out any more releases until Oldskool was no longer required to run the mod. I'm already about 99% there, but that last 1% is going to take a while. I have to basically redesign all the frontend menus from scratch, which is a really boring process for me AND I'm not all that familiar with UWindow code. It will take time for me to understand what I need to do and how to do it. And no matter what, this will be the last step I take before release.

All of EXU2's campaign maps have been significantly altered, and many more alterations are required to support improvements to the HUD (location IDs and such) at the very least before they are release-ready. I've also done major work on Shitstorm and Doom Arena, but those maps are still in alpha status and have more work before they are even beta-ready. All other campaign maps need minor tweaks, but even those take time to execute. I will have all of the map work done before I start on the last step of the de-Oldskooling process, though.

Furthermore, EBM and I have been spending a lot of time lately working on Coop Annihilation maps, which you may have noticed. EXU2-CA-Urk is a map EBM made almost entirely by himself, and it's completely absurd and hilarious if unbelievably ugly. EXU2-CA-Lavagiant is an awesome level, also hilarious and ugly, but not quite as ugly. EXU2-CA-GarbledGuts has a shitload of UT DM and DOM maps all smashed together into one massive EXU2 combat arena, and we're in the process of polishing off the gameplay before we make any efforts to polish visuals a little. These maps are where 90% of my EXU2 development time has gone the past few months, because they are fun as shit to play. Honestly, I think they're even more fun than the campaign.

The latest build of EXU.u and EXU2BI.u are rock solid; we've routinely been running coop servers for upwards of 3 hours without a single client or server crash, so no matter what, any release will bring a whole host of improvements and new features, not to mention awesome UED tools you can use to very easily make your own crazy ass maps with minimal effort! Picking this option just entails me spot-checking maps and code, putting together a patch, uploading it, and releasing it. Shitstorm will remain incomplete and unpolished but perfectly playable, while Doom Arena will be reverted to the version that's currently out there as I work on the remake.

So, what do you want? Let me know how I should approach the next few weeks/months/centuries!

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 19 Jan 2014, 20:13
by UBerserker
As a EXU2 dev user I say latest

so I'll go through the trouble of exporting/importing all G59 maps only one time and never more for years, lol
Seriously I think it's more convenient that way.

BTW: the poll looks funny on the new forum layout, the first bar is shaped like a long dick.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 20 Jan 2014, 03:07
by TheIronKnuckle
I'm keen for all the things.

Also, thankyouthankyouthankyou for planning to remove the oldskool dependencies. Does this mean you're going to have a separate executable like the latest version of seven bullets? One which drops you right into the hellcastle map rather than the UT flyby?

If not, would it be possible to have an "enable/disable EXU" button in the UT mod menu, just like oldskool? I ask these things because EXU2 is way too big, I always hesitate to play it because it requires me to fuck around with the mutator settings, which i've got set up perfectly for UT games and don't want to change.

imo EXU2 should be totally separate from UT, while still having access to all the maps and mutators you've installed on the base game. I'm convinced it's possible to do this with a little code (wouldn't know what that code is myself, unfortunately).

Request: Include Deleted scenes, flares, battles seeds. Stuff like the old hellcastle map. Any maps which have been dumped and replaced, or changed significantly rather than just improved.

Thanks for all the hard work guys

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 20 Jan 2014, 03:42
by Buff Skeleton
Nope, definitely not going the custom executable route. Had too many issues with that in other SP campaigns and it's generally not worth the effort, and I want to maximize compatibility with other UT gametypes and mutators, etc. But a custom frontend menu is certainly a stated goal.

As far as EXU being such a big thing, the best way to handle that is to just make a separate UT install just for EXU and dump in other mutators piecemeal as needed.

I actually plan to include some old content and development documents for anyone interested, though old maps is unlikely as many of them are not even compatible with the latest versions and I don't want to go through the effort to fix them just for the sake of nostalgia. Can always run them on older demos or whatever.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 21 Jan 2014, 09:45
by TheIronKnuckle
re: executable.

Yeah that's what I've been doing for the past couple of years. The main problem is keeping the two installs in-sync. (eg. Install a map to one and it should also be available in the other).
I solved it by just duplicating the system folder alone and changing the paths in the ini, but that just meant my settings and mutators diverged rapidly between installs. Managing two separate system folders is a bitch.

If a built in UT menu you can toggle into is on the cards though I'm stoked. Would solve all the problems for me.

Good point about the old content not working, hadn't considered that.

Pumped for the CA maps

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 21 Jan 2014, 17:31
by Delacroix
TheIronKnuckle wrote:Managing two separate system folders is a bitch.

No. It's kindergarten. :P A mere taste of what is to come after you realize that you need... more... I have four: System200, System225, System227 and System436, with the last one having two separate MapsUT and MapsSP folders. And I'm still considering whether or not to have a System220 and System224 (maybe that last one would replace System225), for purposes of content porting. Trust me. You haven't seen a bitch to manage till you've seen my install of Unreal / UT. :P

As for the topic under discussion: I'm for the top option. I believe that taking your time with EXU2 v6.00 will let you make sure that it's everything you intended. There is no rush. ;) While we're all pumped up for the new content, I personally would prefer EXU2 v6.00 to be the version you intended.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 21 Jan 2014, 23:26
by Jet v4.3.5
Looks like I'm the only one who chose "Later" (2nd option). I'm....I guess I'm fine with "Latest", but I had a reason for my selection so I'll voice it.

I feel good about the updates of the campaign maps and the inclusion of completed EBM levels (along with the any other little mechanical additions made along the way). That's new content that I think should be fully-implemented and working before another release. No qualms there.

The Oldskool issue bothers me, though. That seems to me to be a completely different breed of work for Waff. It's not content alone, it's a technical undertaking. If the campaign and EBM content is going to take 'x' amount of time, the De-Oldskooling process could take just that amount of time if not more -maybe even twice as long. I'm not much of a coder, but if Waff thinks it's going to take a while, I'm assuming that duration will be fairly long, and the inexperience with working with UWindow code could reveal a number of currently unknown obstacles that stretch that duration even further than expected. A simple code base adjustment during Weedrow2's development turned into a huge game-breaking undertaking that put the generation of artist and mapper content on hold for a year, although that may say more about our ragtag team than it does about the process itself (maybe we did it wrong?). That's my chief experience, though it may exaggerate the problems a bit more than what is realistic. That still doesn't mean that the process won't be time-consuming and rife with bug-hunting madness.

I suppose the antithesis of this is the concern that Waff will be stuck post-patch with the De-Oldskooling process and only the De-Oldskooling process ahead of him. I can empathize with the need for "productive distractions" during long-term development, so that's another thing I think is fair to consider.

Just my thoughts. I'm excited to see all of the new content in action (Single Player COOP caught my attention a while back and I really want to get my hands on that, among other things), and I can wait for the latest pieces of content to be completed until this patch is released. But I'm concerned about the De-Oldskooling of EXU2 taking too long a time, holding back some of the extensive new content for the sake of an important but non-gameplay-oriented optimization of the mod.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 25 Jan 2014, 00:02
5.03 -> 6.00 -> 6.66

Yes,I think the 6.66 version will exist :lol:

1st Option,i choose the option with more votes.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 10 Jun 2014, 22:47
by Gameite2260
Where can I download these tourny maps you talk about in the OP?

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 11 Jun 2014, 02:28
by Buff Skeleton
You mean EBM's coop maps? Those haven't been released yet, though they will be once everything else is ready to roll!

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 11 Jun 2014, 23:40
by Gameite2260
Okay, thanks for quick reply.

BTW is there a list of all the maps used in Garbled Guts? It looked interesting based on the video you uploaded.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 11 Jun 2014, 23:53
by Buff Skeleton
It uses DM-Turbine, DM-Liandri, DM-Bullet, DM-Healpod][, DM-DeathFan, DM-Morbias][, DM-Closer, DM-Fractal, DOM-Leadworks, and DOM-Lament][. I believe that's the full list; you can see every area at least once in the video and some of how they interconnect. I'm a big fan of how you can jump down from Death Fan to Morbias to Liandri to Fractal.

Re: Patch Demand Check: When do you want v6.00?

Posted: 12 Jun 2014, 00:28
by Sat42
Bug Horse wrote:I'm a big fan of how you can jump down from Death Fan to Morbias to Liandri to Fractal.


And quite apart from that I've been reading quite a lot from EXU2 lately, and I'm definitely gonna play this mod... once I get back home, or maybe after some serious hardware upgrade for my PC at my place of study (which I'll do sometime this summer)!

I haven't checked out everything as I want the element of surprise, but I did see some Hell Castle pics ONCE and that was enough to have that one on my to-do list! :o

EDIT: voted for "latest" release of v6.00