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Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 00:29
by Buff Skeleton
Damn, look at that fog! Stunning work!

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 00:33
by UBerserker
Hopefully, the stains won't foul the beauty in that part of the map.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 00:42
by Creavion
< 9000, sry :lol:

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 01:25
by jackrabbit
UBerserker wrote:Hopefully, the stains won't foul the beauty in that part of the map.


Engine Limitation. :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

Can you at least give an explanation on how to fix it if its not? Something in the fog properties or something?

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 01:54
by Buff Skeleton
jackrabbit wrote:
UBerserker wrote:Hopefully, the stains won't foul the beauty in that part of the map.


Engine Limitation. :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown: :tdown:

Can you at least give an explanation on how to fix it if its not? Something in the fog properties or something?

I'm telling you guys, it's this engine's horrible, abominable, godawful lightmap rendering. Lightmap resolution is less than a quarter of the texture resolution, and it gets smaller if you scale the textures up at all. There's nothing that can be done about that.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 02:06
by jackrabbit
Waffnuffly wrote:
jackrabbit wrote:
UBerserker wrote:Hopefully, the stains won't foul the beauty in that part of the map.


Engine Limitation. :tdown:

Can you at least give an explanation on how to fix it if its not? Something in the fog properties or something?

I'm telling you guys, it's this engine's horrible, abominable, godawful lightmap rendering. Lightmap resolution is less than a quarter of the texture resolution, and it gets smaller if you scale the textures up at all. There's nothing that can be done about that.


Well personally, I don't use decals in my Unreal install (I think its on in UT though). I wouldn't want someone rating my map based on "stains that foul the beauty", if the mappers intentions make a map that doesn't supports decals and runs on lets say... the original Unreal version 226b (gold). I don't consider it the fault of the mapper if decals are not rendering properly. Simple as that.

The reason I bring this up in particular is that because now with 227's decal support it can be an issue also for the original unreal. I can now imagine someone like UBerskerker complaining in the review "I run in 227 and the decals are not rendering properly, so this is a weakness in the map." That is not true if others are not using decals and running pre-227.

Do I think decals are a stupid concept? No. Do I think they are really necessary in Unreal or UT? No.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 04:02
by Buff Skeleton
Wait, what? I thought you guys were talking about the light bleed in dark areas that will appear on any UE1-engine map for any game ever with dark areas mixed with bright lights, not the decals bleeding through fog issue.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 09:22
by UBerserker
Yep, decal bleeding through the fog.
Fog has been always a problem in Unreal. Either it's badly applied, or it will cause FPS decreases. The Unreal Engine isn't that great for creating illumination.
The lighting in DV2 was rated for something different. So don't worry about that.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 09:47
by Lightning Hunter
I really didn't notice any problems with the decals in my DV2 map that Uberserker mentioned, except for the blood decals that monsters leave behind. Uberserker, what exactly are you referring to, if not that? I thought the fog was just fine when I made the map. Maybe something is different in the render you use?

Sorry for the off-topic comment. Maybe these comments about fog can be moved to the DV2 review thread?

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 09:50
by UBerserker
Lightning Hunter wrote:except for the blood decals that monsters leave behind.


That. And once again I say: I never put it into consideration for the lighting vote.
But the fog is used right in DV2 Map 3, and probably one of the greatest use of it in a SP mappack.

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 09:55
by Lightning Hunter
UBerserker wrote:
Lightning Hunter wrote:except for the blood decals that monsters leave behind.


That. And once again I say: I never put it into consideration for the lighting vote.
But the fog is used right in DV2 Map 3, and probably one of the greatest use of it in a SP mappack.


Ok, well I just thought when I originally read the review that you would have preferred me to leave the fog out of the map due to a silly issue with the blood decals. I'm glad you did enjoy it, then.

Again: I don't mind if these comments are moved to the DV2 review thread. :)

Posted: 14 Jul 2009, 19:21
by Hellscrag
Well, to drag things back on topic, so far I have only used fog in one tiny area of VVV - and it's probably not going to be a combat area (I may change my mind on that of course), in which case decals won't be a problem.

Posted: 15 Jul 2009, 00:42
by Lightning Hunter
Hellscrag wrote:Well, to drag things back on topic, so far I have only used fog in one tiny area of VVV - and it's probably not going to be a combat area (I may change my mind on that of course), in which case decals won't be a problem.


I don't think it matters anyway. The blood decals never bothered me so much that I felt mappers needed to abolish all fog in areas with any combat. Just do as you please with the fog. 8)