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[227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

For gameplay advice and broader discussion of single-player Unreal including custom maps, mods and mutations that alter the game.

Moderators: ividyon, Semfry, zYnthetic

UBerserker
Nali Priest Nali Priest
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013, 21:30

Bug Horse wrote:Why?


Because I find the feature (I'd call it a bug) per-se useless and also dangerous.

I.e. let's see what happens if it becomes a configurable option, turned On:
I play an old long map and all of a sudden there's a scripted event that gets broken because the pawn sees me due to this feature/bug and I can't do anything else other than cheating because I get stuck. Now I get to turn it off and then load my previous game, or restart completely if I accidentally save after the bug occurred.
Why this needs to happen when before it was all fine?

Honestly, I'm not even sure in which cases this feature works (let alone why it should be ON in all the maps). Sheets? Invisible brushes?
UNLESS we're talking about a mappack specific issue, so what is said above doesn't really matter anymore.
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 21 Jul 2013, 22:56

ONP footsteps don't work for some reason... and like was mentioned earlier the first sequence in prisoned is broken along with a couple of other sequences in that map.
I also personally don't like the new way of changing spell books in NC: using walk+spell cast button, and use mouse to scroll through is not very good for combat situations and is generally not very easy to use IMO...
That's my opinions. I look forward to seeing Xidia and Seven Bullets in 227, though I hope problems are fixed by then.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 22 Jul 2013, 00:49

I imagine there will be a few hitches that will need ironing out for these packs. All part of the process. I can foresee certain bits of Xidia and Seven Bullets that will likely be a pain.
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 22 Jul 2013, 01:15

keen for that RLCoop TLF. I reckon it'll take you at least 90 minutes to get to the courtyard :P taking all bets!
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redeye
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 22 Jul 2013, 08:16

Mister_Prophet wrote:I imagine there will be a few hitches that will need ironing out for these packs. All part of the process. I can foresee certain bits of Xidia and Seven Bullets that will likely be a pain.


Not necessarily if they can help it, they are game players, my thought is, all the stuff is there in botpack to make oldskool work. Any other map flaw would have happened regardless.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 22 Jul 2013, 21:18

There's more to those campaigns than what's in Botpack and Oldskool, though that's a big part of it and not every pack uses the resources the same way. In regards to oldskool, one must remember that Seven Bullets was the last time UsAaR33 actively contributed content to the community and there were a lot of "updates" added to oldskool explicitly to counter bugs and glitches found in beta testing. This means that if oldskool annoyances are gonna pop up anywhere, it's in Seven Bullets. That, plus packages used separate from botpack and oldskool plus what 227 changes/fixes...I'm just not gonna blame dots if he gets annoyed :)

Xidia Gold should be easier I guess. I'm just thinking of all the other packages shoved in there. I know that Xidia was the first campaign to use extensive use of meshmaker related decorations and I do not know if these files read the same way in 227 since I'm ignorant of such things. There's also a UT based .u package for the infiltration turret, a couple of other little things. I still think it will be easier because while Seven Bullets was intended purely for UT at the time, I did have early versions of Xidia working in Unreal before the first release. Xidia Gold stuff from The Escape not so much, that was all UT. But most of the custom packages used for UsAaR33's stuff came right out of ONP, so if that works...
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redeye
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 24 Jul 2013, 02:16

Ya that is right, I forgot about the other custom files used for maps.
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User avatar SteadZ
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013, 23:35

Fix for the first map of ONP not working, kindly posted by .:..:
.:..: wrote:In Unreal.ini, change:
[Engine.GameInfo]
bAlwaysEnhancedSightCheck=false
That makes so AI is startled from seeing player through invisible and transparent surfaces.
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User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 25 Jul 2013, 23:49

That should clear up most reservations people have about 227. :P
It really should be made false by default, though..
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User avatar Teridax
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 01:36

Bug Horse wrote:
UBerserker wrote:It should be an actor property set to Off by default rather than an user-configurable option.


Why? You'd have to edit maps to turn it off and on.
UBerserker wrote:Because I find the feature (I'd call it a bug) per-se useless and also dangerous.


I agree with UBerserker here. Personally, for making maps, the ability to edit that property in actors would have been a lot better than what it is now. In its current state, getting pawns to look through windows is an all or nothing deal. It would have been nice to have the option to be able to set up a sequence in one area where a pawn can see you through glass, but then have another where it can't (like in 7b). If there was one mappack that used this feature and another that didn't, and I wanted to play both, I'd have to go back and forth and change my settings, too. Not that I can think of any maps that actively rely on it to begin with, though...

The fact that it's enabled by default is a problem in and of itself, especially since not everyone who has 227 is going to look at OldUnreal or USP if they find that they can't get past a certain area because of the feature. They might just think pass it off as a bug or think it was a problem with the map.
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 03:40

yea why isn't that property on the actor? Great that there's a fix, crap that it's so clunky :)
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User avatar ividyon
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 04:54

I don't see how it's clunky at all; making it a per-actor property feels much clunkier to me. There are users who want monsters to be less retarded, which is likely why this change was implemented in the first place. If that effect is not desired, it can be turned off in the game settings... what is the problem with all that?
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User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 05:40

The problem is that it's clunky. As Teridax has outlined, right now it's an all or nothing deal. In some situations activating the setting will make pawns seem dumber, so you go and toggle it. But then you have to flip the switch again when you get to a map pack which breaks because of that setting. Then you go back and play another pack that requires it and there you go, flipping back and forth. It's a hassle and something that should be specified by the mapper on a per pawn basis. That way you would worry about the setting only once; when setting up the map, as opposed to worrying about it an indefinite amount of times.
This is a bit of a nothing question anyway: at least there's a setting at all!
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redeye
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 06:58

NO a brush should NEVER be seen through, if they made the map with just mover bars the pawn would see.
But since we ALL know pawns can't see through brushes, the intended use of the brush was botched up by 227 since the mapper was counting on it to NOT let the pawn see through the mover barz.. no if's and's or but's.

And there should be no setting addressing the issue if 227 was made correctly.

Unless of course it is a zone portal.

What they should do is make a mover see-through, or not, then that would make sense.
But the mapper would need to make it so. like see though mover in it's properties.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: [227i+] UT map packs for Unreal

Post Posted: 26 Jul 2013, 08:03

ividyon wrote:I don't see how it's clunky at all; making it a per-actor property feels much clunkier to me. There are users who want monsters to be less retarded, which is likely why this change was implemented in the first place. If that effect is not desired, it can be turned off in the game settings... what is the problem with all that?


First off, show me ten users who play the SP gametype who want smarter AI integrated into vanilla gameplay instead of...I dunno, simply there being more maps to play? Second, show me ten mappers that are active and skilled enough to make a cool campaign with these AI changes in mind, as if the mere existence of one or five new maps justify the potential inconsistencies done to all the rest because the user forgets (or does not know) that they need to hit an option so that the gas bag in Sunspire doesn't suddenly become Kal-El. Third, show me anyone who ever felt that enemies with X-Ray vision was a synonym for "smarter AI."

People need to stop saying that enemies in a 15 year old game need to be smarter. They don't. Pool resources and make a mod, leave the patches to do what patches for an old game need to do. For the record, and I say this as a mapper, changing an awareness value without changing the level is the opposite of "smarter." It's called broken, and debating whether or not an option to turn broken on/off is clunky or not....:lol: A good mapper can make enemies seem smarter with a little piss and vinegar.

...And having said all that, I still think the conversion is a good idea and hope more packs can be done simply because I just want more people to play them. To everyone helping with testing, I say :tup: because lord knows I don't have that kind of time. I'm not necessarily looking forward to the messages I may get asking me why something a new player sees in a campaign I made when I was 17 isn't working on 227p, but I get weird questions anyway. The risk is worth the reward. I just hope dots reconsiders his positions on integrating "new" things, like his take on better controls for Nali Chronicles. At this point a simple conversion that just gets the packs to play is all anyone really wants, and some of these campaigns have issues already. I support the conversion, but leave the tweaks that make them do things they didn't do originally for another day. One man's preferences are another man's headache.
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