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18/02/2008 - "Entry to the Fire God..." by DavidM

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Subject: 18/02/2008 - "Entry to the Fire God..." by DavidM

Post Posted: 17 Feb 2008, 18:14

Map Title: Entry to the Fire God Temple
Author: David "DavidM" Münnich and Sjoerd "Hourences" De Jong
From: Operation NaPali
Filename: np20DavidM.unr
Video Playthrough: http://www.dailymotion.com/MMAN2/video/7441379

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Synopsis: After flying out of Volcano Skaarj outpost player finds an entrance to an ancient temple. Solve some puzzles to get inside!

(Thanks to Jethro for preparing this one in advance)
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wael
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Post Posted: 17 Feb 2008, 18:23

The first cave in this map is kinda cool, the rest is ugly. Anyway it's a really short map, but it sticks out like a sore thumb considering it comes right after Wipeout which is awesome. Sadly the map that comes after this one doesn't compensate.

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Post Posted: 17 Feb 2008, 18:36

The whole Fire God Temple segment is incredibly disappointing, coming after the awesomeness of Wipeout and the hugeness of the Lost Sanctuary of Kalish'ra. I guess it's just the beginning of ONP's miscellaneous "rubbish dump" stretch of maps (including recycled DM content) that lasts pretty much until the return to NyLeve's Falls. As the flashing text in the ravine says, "Pah! Pah! Pah!"
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Post Posted: 17 Feb 2008, 19:20

Ok. Short. Nothing more :/

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Post Posted: 18 Feb 2008, 15:46

Only remembered the second pic actually.. and this map was also in the demo. (does anyone have that demo?)
Can't recall much actually.. I only remember it's pretty linear..
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Post Posted: 18 Feb 2008, 17:02

Darkon wrote:(does anyone have that demo?)

yes, on a Game-Magazine CD years ago^^ Dunno where it is right now O_o
I remember that the Demo was slightly different in design than the final (yes of course as expected, but I mean different location parts)

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Post Posted: 18 Feb 2008, 18:47

Shadow wrote:
Darkon wrote:(does anyone have that demo?)

yes, on a Game-Magazine CD years ago^^ Dunno where it is right now O_o
I remember that the Demo was slightly different in design than the final (yes of course as expected, but I mean different location parts)


afaik those were beta releases of the maps.. and weren't as good, but one of the maps was not in the final. That's why i'm interested in the demo.. :)
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Post Posted: 18 Feb 2008, 18:57

I don't remember the demo containing extra maps.

I suppose, from memory, it may have had an old version of map 3 (the shuttle map) that was subsequently abandoned in favour of a new design.

There were some other changes, for example The Betrayer's Path was set at night, and Gore Mine Crossing had a more NyLeve-style lighting scheme that suited the map better.
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Post Posted: 18 Feb 2008, 22:50

Most memorable moment for me here was ONP guy's comments about the Giant Manta. Dumdum ONP guy. The seesaw tossing in the beginning with a crate on one hand felt kinda silly.

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Post Posted: 19 Feb 2008, 16:01

As the ONP demo shows that this was an early map, based on this map, I get the feeling the Fire-god temple (does the demo reference it?) was going to be something more puzzle-based before DavidM came across that Atje level and decided to throw it in instead. That or this was thrown together in a few days to bridge the gap between that map on the previous (probably this). There's not really much good or bad to say considering it so short, as the critique says it is kind of amusing how the Fire God temple entrance revolves around water puzzles :P .

The first time I played this in the demo I didn't work out the block-shooting puzzle at the start, so I managed to just jump across the bridge instead.

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Post Posted: 19 Feb 2008, 18:47

Thanks for the vid, MMAN!

ok map.. except for a few things:
1) Those huge tiles in the beginning.. what's their purpose? And where do they come from? I mean.. it would be weird to put those heavy things there to make a path.. and if so, they're pretty high..
2) EE.. text deep down in the thingy.. thanks MMAN for lighting that, altho I can't read it in the vid. I remember it seeing tho.
3) knocking over that obelisk is a nice touch.. but too linear. Too obvious.. specially since it's the only thing standing together at that spot....
4) the fallen-over-obelisk... is not lit or something. It's totally black...
5) Some nice puzzles.. but yeah, they do not make sense at all. (fire-water)...

pitty. my rating would be 4/10; archi/detail/movers make it high..
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Post Posted: 19 Feb 2008, 22:41

According to the official readme (or map commentary or whatever you call it) the first cave (the better built one) was made by Hourences, rest of this map was created by DavidM, that would explain the difference in quality (not that I think DavidM is a bad mapper, only in this map the difference in build quality is quite remarkable).

As for the map - short and unentertaining, only one enemy to kill, a few obvious puzzles to solve - nothing spectacular, especially compared to the previous ONP section (the Volcano outpost).

Darkon wrote:1) Those huge tiles in the beginning.. what's their purpose? And where do they come from? I mean.. it would be weird to put those heavy things there to make a path.. and if so, they're pretty high..

To be honest most things in Unreal doesn't seem to have any sense, most maps got one way in and one way out, also Nali huts in enemy-infested grounds seem a bit odd - how those peaceful people are able to live there? So, in terms of usability most Unreal locations seem...unrealistic.
Darkon wrote:2) EE.. text deep down in the thingy.. thanks MMAN for lighting that, altho I can't read it in the vid. I remember it seeing tho.

Somewhat childish sense of humor is one of the biggest downsides of the whole ONP - it might be funny for the first time, but if such jokes are repeated in nearly every map....
Darkon wrote:4) the fallen-over-obelisk... is not lit or something. It's totally black...

Unlit movers are quite common in Unreal world, I don't know if that's maps design flaw or it's just one of engine.... features.
Mman wrote:The first time I played this in the demo I didn't work out the block-shooting puzzle at the start, so I managed to just jump across the bridge instead.

I was never good at jumping so I took the "harder" way and found obvious solution :P
GTD-Carthage wrote:Most memorable moment for me here was ONP guy's comments about the Giant Manta.

I believe it's not this map. No giant mantas here.
wael wrote:Anyway it's a really short map, but it sticks out like a sore thumb considering it comes right after Wipeout which is awesome. Sadly the map that comes after this one doesn't compensate.

That's just one of the downsides of having mod made by team of mappers with different mapping skills. But this map could have been better, perhaps they were short on time so they didn't have a chance to polish it?

EDIT: Oh, and thanks Scrag for posting this MOTW for me! :tup:
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Post Posted: 20 Feb 2008, 08:23

Waaaay to hypercritical, the flat stones are there so people can see the cave exit easier.And they arn't to thick, they were placed by strong people (monsters) who needed a walkway.
This map shouldn't be judged by itself, the next section I consider the same map, better to not make huge files and they probably had some issue mapping, not anything to do with fitting it into a perfectly perfect perfect story.

The comedy is great in all games, it's not thier problem if you play it again.
The words in the bottom was just for fun and claims the maps uniqness, and you don't see the letters at all unless you fall which is a bonus type of thing to see, nothing more.

The traps or movers for both maps was one of the coolest mover things in unreal.

Map looks fine, cave looks like hours work so much it aint all that great of a thing, same gray, same hanging plants etc etc ramps..................

I liked this whole ONP I give this-these maps a 8 out of 10.

The next map I believe you were all bitching about the checkerd floor tiles texture.
And the screenshots are once agian rediculasly too dark.
Just ban everyone

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Post Posted: 20 Feb 2008, 21:47

redeye wrote:Waaaay to hypercritical


I hope you really mean "hyper-critical" and not "hypocritical". I just want to be sure.

redeye wrote:This map shouldn't be judged by itself, the next section I consider the same map, better to not make huge files and they probably had some issue mapping, not anything to do with fitting it into a perfectly perfect perfect story.


- But it IS a separate map, with a separate name and a very different design style.
- No evidence of a problem mapping; the maps are by different authors.
- Storyline and a consistent progression from map to map are aspects of design that many of us consider important. Unreal had both to an extent, after all, and therein lies your benchmark.

redeye wrote:The comedy is great in all games, it's not thier problem if you play it again.


I understand the words but have no idea of your meaning!

redeye wrote:I liked this whole ONP I give this-these maps a 8 out of 10.


Is this map really in the top 20% of all custom maps made for Unreal? I would describe this map, taken alone, as "average" or less - wouldn't you? If 5/10 is not defined as "average", then you waste a large part of your reviewing scale. This isn't a school exam system, so 50% shouldn't be a "failing grade".

We thought the same way as you did when UnrealSP.Org first opened, but we set the benchmark scores too high. Very soon we were handing out ½ points, which I had never intended, and only the most badly designed or unplayable maps got less than 6/10. It made a mockery of the scoring system and the review schema.

redeye wrote:The next map I believe you were all bitching about the checkerd floor tiles texture.


Well, it is ugly IMO!

redeye wrote:And the screenshots are once agian rediculasly too dark.


I don't know how bright a setting you normally play Unreal on, but they look absolutely fine to me! Light and shade - it's good.
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Post Posted: 20 Feb 2008, 22:32

redeye wrote:And the screenshots are once agian rediculasly too dark.


And your monitor settings are once agian rediculasly too dark.


Anyway, this map was nothing special. A "hub" map without anything special, the crate obelisk thing was pretty cool but it didn't have much sense, aside from inserting a cool mover sequence.
The big cave at start was the best thing, probably. Though it was weird surfacing into a 512uu high "canyon" after being in such a tall cavern.
Not a bad map, but not good either.

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