Custom content being used by contestants

Z-enzyme · Post by **Z-enzyme** » 13 Jul 2009, 21:52

No engine mods...

...

If no then no. I'll try to do something about it.
But, don't be surprised if this zip file is going to have like 100 megs...

Hellscrag · Post by **Hellscrag** » 13 Jul 2009, 22:48

As I say, we may be able to make an exception for you as you have written the music yourself. However, don't be surprised if, when all of the contest entries are compiled into a single download, your music is cut and replaced with a stock UMX.

Buff Skeleton · Post by **Buff Skeleton** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:15

Hellscrag wrote:As I say, we may be able to make an exception for you as you have written the music yourself. However, don't be surprised if, when all of the contest entries are compiled into a single download, your music is cut and replaced with a stock UMX.

You can't be serious. That's utterly ridiculous. If he creates the music himself, why does anyone care if there's 4 extra \System\ files included? Arbitrarily replacing custom content with inappropriate stock content just because it's partially an "engine mod" (barely) is totally out of character for ANYONE working on SP projects.

Why the need to be so overly-bureaucratic over a small community mapping contest? This is like saying it's OK to make your own textures for the project and letting someone make S3TC textures, then cutting and replacing all their textures later with totally wrong, inaccurate ones for no good reason.

I understand why we aren't supposed to use engine mods (see what can be done with the current tech) and all, and I understand the need to enforce the rules so everyone is on a level playing field, but this is really getting over the line, don't you think? A massively superior method of putting music into maps isn't the same as using completely redesigned visual effects like particles, etc. Plus, we're allowed to use custom content if it's created specifically for this contest; theoretically, someone could go write their own particle emitter and have a much-more-obviously non-classical SP map made that fits within the rules, but still be barred from using something as simple as an mp3 player for better musical compression solely because they didn't make it themselves?

It just seems like holding rigidly to these rules is stifling creativity when the rules were designed in the first place to foster it. You want people to be creative with the engine, right, so you want people to make their own content. Of course. But this is very obviously just a technical breakthrough that has next to no noticeable impact on the game experience here, and it would allow qtit to use his very own music creation without creating a shit-quality 100MB UMX file. UMX is dead, seriously.

If anyone actually cries foul play about bending these rules slightly for special cases like this, then they need to relax and get over themselves. There isn't even a prize for winning; I don't see why we should be so stubborn about the rules.

Hellscrag · Post by **Hellscrag** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:33

Maybe I am being "beaureaucratic", or maybe I'm just trying to create some kind of consistency in the way these maps are handled. Maybe we could include RMusicPlayer in the eventual compilation download. It just seems a bit silly to do so for the benefit of one entry (especially when RMusicPlayer was originally discussed and ruled out before the contest started).

Why don't we see what sort of music qtit has come up with, and then decide what would be best for the final compiled release? Seems fair.

Buff Skeleton · Post by **Buff Skeleton** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:35

Fair enough I guess, but seriously, please don't consider ripping content someone created for what amounts to an arbitrary reason. If I was the one having content ripped from my map I would be pretty peeved, and it would almost certainly cheapen the map's overall atmosphere, too. It's better to bend rules for the sake of a map than to bend a map for the sake of the rules, I think. I care a lot more about good quality maps than consistent maps.

Kaka · Post by **Kaka** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:40

If I have time i might use ravs mp3 player too, I wanna make something moody for my map, but that's only if I have a day or two left before the deadline. And like Waff said - qtit mqde the music for this contest it hasnt been used before and mp3 player is onlya prog which makes it possible to play music in good quality - why not? And asisde that, i don't belive anyone will be still messing with modtracker these days, so mp3s are natural step forward and we can only appreciate the fact we have that possibility.

Hellscrag · Post by **Hellscrag** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:55

OK, we'll keep the RMusicPlayer - but only for people who've made their own music.

Kaka · Post by **Kaka** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:57

Hellscrag wrote:OK, we'll keep the RMusicPlayer - but only for people who've made their own music.

$\o/$

Hellscrag · Post by **Hellscrag** » 13 Jul 2009, 23:58

Never let it be said that I don't listen to reasoned argument.

Z-enzyme · Post by **Z-enzyme** » 14 Jul 2009, 00:42

Hellscrag wrote: we may be able to make an exception for you as you have written the music yourself

I hate exeptions.

Hellscrag wrote:However, don't be surprised if, when all of the contest entries are compiled into a single download, your music is cut and replaced with a stock UMX.

I didn't quite catch that one... You mean that, IF all packs are meant to be downloadable as one file, you consider edditing my maps to get rid of MP3 content? You're serious??

Hellscrag wrote:Why don't we see what sort of music qtit has come up with, and then decide what would be best for the final compiled release? Seems fair.

K.

http://www.sendspace.com/file/cloyjy
http://www.sendspace.com/file/szu7h6
http://www.sendspace.com/file/7dwm4v

Yes, this is created by me. There may be more. Dunno yet.

jackrabbit · Post by **jackrabbit** » 14 Jul 2009, 01:34

Personally, I agree with both Hellscrag and Waff here, but I think its pointless to even argue the matter when in the end its up to what the mapper is going to do with their map (whether the rules say to or not). If this means them sacrificing their entry to further contruct their own personal project (that's where qtit's project seems to be going) instead of releasing it with an 8th anniversary compilation pack (which I think its a GREAT idea btw), then that's up to them and them only.

Now the way I see it with my map, I will try my very best to get it done with the time given so mine can be included in this compilation pack. Either way, the map is going to show up in Mission Pack Zero in its final form. I'd actually really like to release my work in a compilation pack so I can have some public play testers to rate my map and give feedback. Hopefully that would make my map and other maps in MP0 even better quality.

Its kind of disappointing that qtit is going to not put at least one of his maps in the compilation pack. Maybe you would consider Qtit to include only the first map of your series in the pack and then later release a standalone final version. It would probably give your pack some good publicity (the same I'm hoping it will give MP0).

Mister_Prophet · Post by **Mister_Prophet** » 14 Jul 2009, 02:28

Just to throw in, Music in games has always been dependent on the map it's attached to and vice versa. And since this is a mapping contest, the primary emphasis we're being judged upon is our ability to map, is it not? For the most part, Hellscrag's rules are sound. But when it comes to engine modding for music, it's such an artistic gamble anyway (especially given the time limit of the contest) that to authorize it would be more of a risk for the mapper than a unfair boost.

Post by **ividyon** » 14 Jul 2009, 05:21

I've seen through your disguise, Hellscrag
this isn't a mapping contest, it's a rule obeying exercise to prepare a selected few for your upcoming world domination and totalitarian reign!

Buff Skeleton · Post by **Buff Skeleton** » 14 Jul 2009, 05:29

That man on the screen in V for Vendetta?

That's right.

Hitlerscrag.

Hellscrag · Post by **Hellscrag** » 14 Jul 2009, 19:14

qtit wrote:I didn't quite catch that one... You mean that, IF all packs are meant to be downloadable as one file, you consider edditing my maps to get rid of MP3 content? You're serious??

We've already discussed this in detail on this thread and I've changed my position on this issue. Your music won't be cut for being in the MP3 format. See posts above.

Also, thanks for posting the links, but I don't need to preview the music.

Waffnuffly wrote:That man on the screen in V for Vendetta?

That's right.

Hitlerscrag.

Why are you calling me names now? In jest or otherwise, it's pointless as I actually agreed yesterday to what you were asking for.

jackrabbit wrote:Its kind of disappointing that qtit is going to not put at least one of his maps in the compilation pack. Maybe you would consider Qtit to include only the first map of your series in the pack and then later release a standalone final version. It would probably give your pack some good publicity (the same I'm hoping it will give MP0).

I think I've missed something. When did qtit pull out of the contest?