23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

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23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Sat42 »

Map Titles:
  • Escape from Skaarj Base
    The Betrayer's Path
Authors: Arjan "Evil Atje" Vroegop (Escape from Skaarj Base), Emil "Hyperion" Attlid (The Betrayer's Path), with additional work by David "DavidM" Münnich (both maps) and Paul 'Tonnberry' Fahss (The Betrayer's Path)
From: Operation Na Pali
Filenames:
  • NP03Atje.unr
    NP04Hyperion.unr
EDIT (23/11/2024): link to download updated NP04Hyperion.unr file which restores a couple of translator messages originally present in the Operation Na Pali demo: https://www.mediafire.com/file/r1vi6nbh ... n.unr/file




Video Playthread:


With UT v436 super speed bug on modern hardware + text commentary (with a Yakety Sax worthy finale!):


Older demo Version:


Synopsis: With the help of an alien Mercenary, ONP Guy has managed to escape captivity at the hands of the Skaarj. Having just hijacked a scout ship (top speed 1337 km/h), ONP Guy is now hopefully in a commanding position to continue his mission: finding the 3 surviving crew members of the original Vortex Rikers who reportedly hold valuable intel...

Discuss!
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by TigerTheGreat »

Sat42 wrote:ONP Guy
Ah, operative 046...

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MY NAME IS...
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Sat42 »

Delacroix wrote:
Sat42 wrote:ONP Guy
Ah, operative 046...

MY NAME IS...
Listen, to me...

Beautiful picture :D

EDIT: for anyone new here or otherwise desiring to refresh their memories, I refer you to the start of the ONP adventure, previously discussed here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=4823
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Waffnuffly wrote: It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Semfry »

As mentioned I'm using the edited version of this map here with a couple of fixes.

Escape From the Skaarj Base works to introduce the ship mechanics; it's only used once elsewhere anyway, but this provides some nice environments to fly through and is pretty short (very short if you go for the speedrun bonus), as well as having a checkpoint for the final stretch, so frustration is low even if you crash multiple times. There is an annoying issue where you can just get completely suspended in place with no way to move except restarting; it seems to be related to hugging the Skybox too much.

Since Prisoned was an Intro and Escape is built around non-standard gameplay, I guess The Betrayer's Path is the first "proper" ONP map, and it does a good job providing some general Unreal gameplay while showing off new elements like the friendly Nali (although one seems to keep getting stuck trying to jump up stuff), as well as being the first properly explorable showcase of ONP's outdoor lighting style. While overall linear like most ONP maps, it throws in some small path splits and the mostly optional town at the end to allow for some exploration. Despite moments like the crate falling on a Nali, this also begins one of the darker plotlines in ONP, with the "Evil Nali", who also provides a boss fight at the end.

The cave with Krall is structured a little oddly as if you approach them from the "wrong" side the rocks don't fall on them, which both makes things harder and can result in the collapse becoming a random death trap for you. The Evil Nali also works as a boss here, but it's a shame they barely show up at all later on and it feels like a dropped plotline without much of a climax or resolution. Given how overt most of ONP's humour is, the "unsinkable boats" at the lake are a nice subtle joke (at least by ONP standards) that can be completely missed if you don't explore. I thought I recalled this map having a secret or two in it, but apparently it doesn't?
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Masterkent »

Semfry wrote:I thought I recalled this map having a secret or two in it, but apparently it doesn't?
The map has no formal secrets, but I think that a couple of hidden places with a NaliFruit and HealthVials might be considered as secrets.

This is my playthrough, BTW:
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Masterkent »

Sat42 wrote:EDIT (23/11/2024): link to download updated NP04Hyperion.unr file which restores a couple of translator messages originally present in the Operation Na Pali demo: https://www.mediafire.com/file/r1vi6nbh ... n.unr/file
Is that original demo version of NP04Hyperion available for downloading somewhere?
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by TigerTheGreat »

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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Sat42 »

Thank you for your playthrough, Masterkent! (added to OP)
Masterkent wrote:
Sat42 wrote:EDIT (23/11/2024): link to download updated NP04Hyperion.unr file which restores a couple of translator messages originally present in the Operation Na Pali demo: https://www.mediafire.com/file/r1vi6nbh ... n.unr/file
Is that original demo version of NP04Hyperion available for downloading somewhere?
I see Delacroix has already provided a working link :)

It's always remarkable how much of a natural crowdpleaser ONP is, I noticed on Semfry's video a couple of comments like this one: "I love the atmosphere in this level. Great use of lighting and the skybox." (and we rarely get comments there) It's true that the visuals here are typically a step up from not only vanilla Unreal but also a bit better than official Unreal Tournament, and the more realistic outdoor lighting technique has a lot to do with that (and some other maps in the campaign also significantly improve the level of detail for geometry).

Escape from Skaarj Base (they forgot a definite article, but it's a very functional title regardless, since we're actually escaping from Demon Crater so they could have referred to that instead) is memorable primarily for the novelty factor the first time round and yeah, it looks very cool - short and sweet (Semfry pulled it off in 20-22 seconds!). ONP's flying gametype was worth the effort just for WipeOut, and so it's fine that we just get an introduction to the mechanics here. Again, Demon Crater with the ONP sunset lighting and skybox is pretty pleasing :) Fun fact: as a young n00b, I didn't immediately realise we could control the ship and thought the level was a cinematic - until about 2 nanoseconds away from crashing into a cliff :lol:

The Betrayer's Path is pretty excellent IMO and just shy of greatness: I remember how exciting the first playthrough was, it feels like a journey and the story is indeed further developed with the Nali combatants joining you (I always manage to bring at least one from the start to the end :) by the way @Semfry: never had that bug with one of them repeatedly stuck trying to jump up stuff!) and the whole "betrayer" arc building up to the "Evil Nali" (or Nali cyborg) encounter which was definitely tough back then. I will say that while I agree with Semfry that the "Sharuk assimilation project" is never truly resolved in the campaign, we do get a tougher - and generally speaking more spectacular - follow-up to what we get here later on... but that's a story for another time!

The Betrayer's Path is, simply put, a really good all-rounder basically. It manages to juggle between serious story moments, exploration of pretty environments, scripted sequences and fighting (and not without challenge the first time round), and yeah, a bit of humour: indeed, "unsinkable boats" will put a smile on your face :)
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Waffnuffly wrote: It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Hellscrag »

I'm sure Hyperion was originally advertised as a major contributor to ONP. I wonder what happened to the rest of his planned contributions, and what they would have been like?

The Betrayer's Path does enough to whet the appetite... and it's better, I think, than DavidM's contemporary "n00b crap" (his words, not mine) that made it into the final product.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Semfry »

I went and did an extra video playthrough of the demo version of map 4, which I already had. There is a version of map 3, but the ship wouldn't work and I guess I'd have to install older files or something which I didn't want to do; from what I recall the visuals are basically the only difference anyway.

While the demo version is mostly the same, it is before the last pass of textures and lighting, so it's interesting to see ONP before it was fully "leet". The start being a teleport is interesting; given the ship is already in the demo I guess they still hadn't worked out the new transition and you presumably teleported here from the Mothership originally. Maybe it's a restored message from the update in this thread (which would explain why it was removed), but there's also a bit of error in the messages due to the teleport being removed, as the "glowing metallic formation" referenced was clearly talking about it. The chasm before the village is a bit different; it's actually safer as there's planks going across it, but the gap is also longer, I think the final version does a better job making it seem more perilous while still making it so there's little actual risk of falling. The village itself has various missing sections compared to the final, and it's a little more linear as you are forced through the small underground passage with a lift rather than just being able to walk around it. Beyond that it's just less cutscenes/events and some slightly different voice acting.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by SteadZ »

Hellscrag wrote:I'm sure Hyperion was originally advertised as a major contributor to ONP. I wonder what happened to the rest of his planned contributions, and what they would have been like?
He had at least one other level in the works for the pack (there's a vague screenshot I have somewhere if I can find it) but other than that he was very involved in the beginning with the overall project and such (back when it was RtNP 2!), and I remember reading that he stepped back from it when DavidM started veering into the comedic territory the final product is. Think he was a little unhappy with the changes made to this level too.

EDIT:
Screenshots as promised
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Sat42 »

Semfry wrote:I went and did an extra video playthrough of the demo version of map 4, which I already had. [...] Maybe it's a restored message from the update in this thread (which would explain why it was removed), but there's also a bit of error in the messages due to the teleport being removed, as the "glowing metallic formation" referenced was clearly talking about it. [...]
Excellent, thank you for the bonus playthrough Semfry! Never played the demo myself, so it's interesting to see how things were before the contributions by DavidM and Tonnberry (which definitely improved things). And yes, you're right, one of the two restored messages is the one referring to the teleporter, I guess ideally the last sentence from that message would have to be cut in order to remain consistent (the first part of it remains relevant as it speaks of the Nali warriors)...
Hellscrag wrote:The Betrayer's Path does enough to whet the appetite... and it's better, I think, than DavidM's contemporary "n00b crap" (his words, not mine) that made it into the final product.
Haha yeah, David was being harsh with respect to his older maps included in the campaign but they certainly do not live up to the general standards of the pack and I agree The Betrayer's Path is better (still strikes me as odd that ONP's director, who would apply rigorous quality control on other people's maps, would still include some of his earlier stuff without reworking them enough to be on a par with the rest - it's not like the campaign would be too short without them!).
SteadZ wrote:[Hyperion] had at least one other level in the works for the pack [...]
Screenshots as promised
Nice, thanks for sharing! :) I suppose quite a lot of material was left "on the cutting room floor" as so many different people contributed to this project and it was sometimes perceived as being the "last great SP mod" for UT before moving on to UE2. Funny in retrospect...
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Mister_Prophet »

I never interacted with Hyperion back in the day. I'd be curious to hear his take on all this stuff, or any of the Team Vortex guys that would still be around. I'm sure they have interesting insight. Sadly, I do not think our community has been too lucky to have much discourse with that team even in the heyday. One of the few teams or projects for SP that released outside of association with the USP forums.

I will post here that I like the Betrayer's Path level. I always felt ONP had a bit of an awkward beginning, though the cinematics were the best of all the community SPs of that era (perhaps not counting Spatial Fear's opening crawl). ONP has a feel though when it comes to the Na Pali wandering levels, and I got my first dose of it with Betrayer's. I also remember thinking the bad Nali skins were awesome at the time.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

Post by Aspide »

Escape from Skaarj Base is a great introduction to one of the gimmicks that ONP has, the gameplay is very easy to understand but defeating the level can be tricky, the ship behaves like the Redeemer from UT99 (even the Redeemer sound is used for the ship's engine :D ) the only difference is that you can decrease/increase the speed with the primary/secondary fire. You have plenty of room to maneuver (except for the final section) so it should be pretty easy to beat the level with a low speed, however if you are trying to beat the level as quick as possible or if you want to beat the Uber goal time, then good luck, but the map has some shortcuts you can use, the choice of path is the key to beat the Uber time.

The Betrayer's Path is when ONP really starts, you are thrown in a familiar looking place if you have played Unreal before and enemies are everywhere, this map introduces another one of ONP's gimmicks and that's the ally system, it's a great surprise when you met your first Nali only to see him wielding a Dispersion Pistol and then starts following and protecting you. The ally system is a great natural evolution of the gameplay of Unreal and also story wise, after the defeat of the Skaarj Queen the Nali must feel more confident and brave and therefore some Nali now start to rebel against the Skaarj, one unfortunate pawn that was never used was the ally Krall, it would have been cool to have a map where Krall and Nali were working together against the Skaarj. Another gimmick introduced in this map is that you can destroy barrels and crates by just touching them, the odd thing is that since you have a Dispersion Pistol with infinite charge you don't have to worry about ammo, so the new barrel/crate system feels redundant, it's still fun though. Gameplay is tight, while ONP is overall easy this level can be quite the challenge since there aren't that many health items, also this map has no secret pickups so you don't have a safety net. There are some interesting scripted sequences like the Krall ambush or the Brute killing the Nali and when the Skaarj uses a box to crush a Nali, poor Nali :( . The level ends with a fight against an "Evil" Nali, the fight is basically you fighting one of those Nali allies introduced at the start of the level. That Nali behaves a little bit like a bot but thankfully without the speed and ferocity of a bot, so it isn't that difficult, however you have to be careful since sometimes the rockets start to follow you :shock: , also there are other Skaarj during that fight depending on the difficulty so it would be better to start prioritizing.

The level geometry is really good in both maps, ONP has good quality control when it comes to level geometry and lighting (except for some "interesting" levels that appear later in the campaign). The choice of textures is great and the alignment is good for the most part (however there are some oddities, the worst alignment issue is the terrain textures). The terrain is awesome, mappers really learned how to make this types of brushes by this point, I bet that if ONP was made during 1998-1999 the terrain would have looked very, very different :wink: . ONP has new textures and the one used in mountains is used all over the place, even the Nyleve Falls remake uses the new terrain textures instead of using the originals. This gives ONP an consistent look, so bonus points for that. Lighting is also well done, ONP was the pioneer when it came to using powerful lights in a specific place to create natural sun light shadows, after so many years it still looks great, but there are some places where the shadows look ugly but for the most part those shadows look fantastic. However the shadows aren't the only highlight of ONP's lighting : good use of colors and many dark corners to add to the atmosphere, another highlight is the skybox, great use of lights with different colors and use of textures, I also love that the green asteroid appears in the skybox because that asteroid plays a small part of the story latter, it reminds me of the Sunspire that appears in the skybox of the majority of the levels before it.

Also bonus points for the reflective look of water zones, they look pretty cool \o/

Sound design is decent, The Betrayer's Path has many Ambient Sounds (but no Dynamic Sounds :( ) and the choice of sounds is very effective. Music is good as well, Escape from Skaarj Base doesn't use any music which was a great decision in order for players to focus completely on the new gameplay gimmick, The Betrayer's Path uses music from Unreal and they are used very well including music changes depending on what's going on. Neither of this maps use the new songs from ONP, but that's a good thing since the campaign is waiting for the right time to start playing the new music.

Issues I found :

Escape from Skaarj Base :
-Sometimes when you touch the ceiling of the map you get stuck.
-If you start the level pressing the primary/secondary fire you will start shooting your weapons.
-Texture alignment for the terrain is bad, the same goes for all maps in ONP.
-For some reason the sky in the final cutscene has dark textures instead of showing the skybox.
-The map has some actors that don't do anything because they were copy pasted from Demon Crater like Pathnodes, a Creature Factory and two Skaarj Troopers :D
-This level doesn't have a safety net if you play it online.
-There's a teleporter out of bounds.
-When you beat the Goal time or the Uber time you should get a reward with bonus point for your score....., this map doesn't reward you at all if you beat the Uber time :P

The Betrayer's Path :
-Many translator messages come from books, but those books can move. Rookie mistake 8) (You can also use this books to go higher up and skip sections of the level)
-The ally Nali have a tendency to get stuck on movers, houses and aren't clever when it comes to jumping down. The most challenging thing about this map is babysitting your Nali allies.
-This map (just like the majority of ONP maps) use invisible brushes to create the natural looking shadows, but only because they are invisible doesn't mean they don't have collision.
-The majority of the doors are TriggerControl, the problem is that if someone dies near the door the door will always remain open.
-A Nali fruit near the Brute is floating.
-There's an enforcer clip near the end of the map that gets destroyed by the door when you touch it.
-This level has many places where secrets could have been added, but instead this map has no secrets.
-There are some trees with wrong collision values.
-When you fall off the map there are triggers that kill you, however they only affect the player.
-Some translator messages have issues, the messages are incomplete. Thankfully Delacroix made a fix to restore the cut messages.
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Re: 23/11/2024 - "Escape from Skaarj Base + The Betrayer's Path" by Atje & Hyperion

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