Author: pla
From: The Descent
Filename: TD-02-Pla.unr
Video Playthread:
Synopsis: You managed to break into "The Forbidden Caves". You can now truly begin your search for clues of the kidnapped Nali child...
Discuss!
21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
Moderators: Semfry, Sat42, Jigoku, UB_
21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
Map Title: Forgotten Places
Author: pla
From: The Descent
Filename: TD-02-Pla.unr
Video Playthread:
Synopsis: You managed to break into "The Forbidden Caves". You can now truly begin your search for clues of the kidnapped Nali child...
Discuss!
Author: pla
From: The Descent
Filename: TD-02-Pla.unr
Video Playthread:
Synopsis: You managed to break into "The Forbidden Caves". You can now truly begin your search for clues of the kidnapped Nali child...
Discuss!
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote: It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.
Re: 21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
The design here is relatively simple, but it looks nice and there are some interesting flourishes like the waterfalls at the start, as well as the vertical design and various bits of ruined architecture. There were major performance issues in the main area but that was fixed in the patch. I guess it's notable that this probably pays the most lip-service to the "must use DecayedS" rule, as, not counting the start and end, it's basically just a wall panel near the start, but it does still hint at something bigger in the background.
This is probably the most contentious level gameplay-wise in The Descent as it's probably the toughest standard Unreal gameplay in the set and also the second non-intro map. While I tried to touch gameplay as little as possible for the patch beyond tweaking, this is the level I made the most changes too, like adding Jumpboots that require some foreknowledge but allow you to get to some nice supplies when you know where they are (you can't skip the fight as there's an invisible wall at the hole into the last section, which is a bit inelegant but works I guess), and were apparently only accessible with damage boosts before? As well as making it clearer you have to fight in the cave (in retrospect "endless horde" was bad wording though as it's not really true). There are also multiple secrets that can make things a lot smoother, but your supplies can feel much sparser if you miss them. I recall the Stinger in particular was also unavailable until a secret near the end before, so I added one to a secret at the start, which keeps to the spirit of it being a secret item, but it's probably the easiest to find.
The big cave horde battle is obviously the centre-piece, but I feel the bad framerates were the worst problem for me, and now it runs fine it's managable enough even without the secrets. In retrospect the final area past the big arena would also be a good candidate for cutting down spawns a lot, even if they are still finite, and the collapsing floors near the end straight up feel spiteful as they do nothing but dump you back and do fall damage; doesn't help that you can randomly die to the big floor collapse even though it shouldn't do damage, although I think that's much rarer now. That difficulty can make it feel a bit misplaced but I also have a hard time thinking of a more appropriate place for it pacing-wise later on.
This is probably the most contentious level gameplay-wise in The Descent as it's probably the toughest standard Unreal gameplay in the set and also the second non-intro map. While I tried to touch gameplay as little as possible for the patch beyond tweaking, this is the level I made the most changes too, like adding Jumpboots that require some foreknowledge but allow you to get to some nice supplies when you know where they are (you can't skip the fight as there's an invisible wall at the hole into the last section, which is a bit inelegant but works I guess), and were apparently only accessible with damage boosts before? As well as making it clearer you have to fight in the cave (in retrospect "endless horde" was bad wording though as it's not really true). There are also multiple secrets that can make things a lot smoother, but your supplies can feel much sparser if you miss them. I recall the Stinger in particular was also unavailable until a secret near the end before, so I added one to a secret at the start, which keeps to the spirit of it being a secret item, but it's probably the easiest to find.
The big cave horde battle is obviously the centre-piece, but I feel the bad framerates were the worst problem for me, and now it runs fine it's managable enough even without the secrets. In retrospect the final area past the big arena would also be a good candidate for cutting down spawns a lot, even if they are still finite, and the collapsing floors near the end straight up feel spiteful as they do nothing but dump you back and do fall damage; doesn't help that you can randomly die to the big floor collapse even though it shouldn't do damage, although I think that's much rarer now. That difficulty can make it feel a bit misplaced but I also have a hard time thinking of a more appropriate place for it pacing-wise later on.
Formerly Mman
Re: 21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
Interesting insights there, Semfry!
I remember thinking this is an excellent map, it looks really nice especially in that main cavern (bottom-left screenshot, so "leet"!), it's challenging as already mentioned (I definitely died during the boss fight!), and it's expansive - took me over an hour the first time round.
And yes, I think its place in the campaign is fitting, if only because of the skylight in the aforementioned main cavern (we're still not too far from the surface), and the player should be ready for a challenge by now (and it's a conventional form of challenge for those who've played Unreal before, unlike the more unique stuff that can catch the player off-guard later on).
On a personal note, I am really happy that pla managed to complete this map and have it released as part of The Descent
once upon a time I was meant to incorporate a late contribution pla made for the UED Game Of Telephone (which I haven't forgotten, I promise) but it broke the already big map, and so pla was considering releasing a stand-alone map instead... I have to imagine that Forgotten Places was the culmination of all those efforts 
There's definitely some Chizra influences here, and at the same time the varied level design with distinct areas give the feel of a multi-layered set of ancient structures which goes well with the general idea of places long forgotten. That said, more story could've helped elevate this map to true greatness, as such the only thing keeping it away from being a filler level is its scale and generosity in terms of gameplay.
I remember thinking this is an excellent map, it looks really nice especially in that main cavern (bottom-left screenshot, so "leet"!), it's challenging as already mentioned (I definitely died during the boss fight!), and it's expansive - took me over an hour the first time round.
And yes, I think its place in the campaign is fitting, if only because of the skylight in the aforementioned main cavern (we're still not too far from the surface), and the player should be ready for a challenge by now (and it's a conventional form of challenge for those who've played Unreal before, unlike the more unique stuff that can catch the player off-guard later on).
On a personal note, I am really happy that pla managed to complete this map and have it released as part of The Descent
once upon a time I was meant to incorporate a late contribution pla made for the UED Game Of Telephone (which I haven't forgotten, I promise) but it broke the already big map, and so pla was considering releasing a stand-alone map instead... I have to imagine that Forgotten Places was the culmination of all those efforts There's definitely some Chizra influences here, and at the same time the varied level design with distinct areas give the feel of a multi-layered set of ancient structures which goes well with the general idea of places long forgotten. That said, more story could've helped elevate this map to true greatness, as such the only thing keeping it away from being a filler level is its scale and generosity in terms of gameplay.
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote: It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.
Re: 21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
If memory serves, this map changed a lot during the development of The Descent, possibly even the most change from beta to final version out of all the maps. I recall the beta version having a seemingly infinite amount of pupae, followed by a titan, and finally a skaarj sniper just in case the player didn't save, but that all of these were adjusted a bit for the final version. I'll need to play through it again to get fresh footage for the eventual video.
Re: 21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
That first remark about the map changing a lot during development seems fitting given my experience with pla's earlier mapping effortebd wrote:If memory serves, this map changed a lot during the development of The Descent, possibly even the most change from beta to final version out of all the maps. [...] I'll need to play through it again to get fresh footage for the eventual video.
a very "organic" way of making maps.Looking forward to your video - as usual, just keep us posted and I will add it to the OP
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote: It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.
Re: 21/09/2024 - "Forgotten Places" by pla
This map is weird, it's a map that stands out from the rest of the maps from this campaign. The level takes place in an abandoned temple that's falling apart, I really enjoyed the feeling when you touch a part of the map, only for the floor to break, it really sells the idea that this whole temple could collapse at any moment 
. Unfortunately the map doesn't have a story, there is not a single translator event except for the one in the Titan boss arena and the messages is just a hint to start the fight.
The level geometry is decent, there are some BSP caves from time to time and I wonder if pla made them or they were made by someone else but they look great (except that there are some texture alignment issues in the cave where you fight the Titan). Movers are used frequently to add destruction to the environment, probably the highlight of the map is the use of this movers. Lighting is decent. there are some strange oddities like that thunder light that appears from time to time and sometimes enemies look odd because of lighting issues. This map uses plenty of fog (just like the rest of the maps in this pack) and it really adds to the atmosphere, every map benefits from having some fog as long as it doesn't ruin the performance of the game, which is something that happened in the original version of this map. Music is good, this map uses songs from the original Unreal which gives this map a very old school feeling to it, also this map uses Guardian.umx
, thankfully The Descent is a 227 exclusive so you don't have to worry about Guardian breaking the game 
. Sounds are a mixed bag, the map uses plenty of DynamicAmbientSounds but they all play the same sounds and they are all used for the crackling sounds for the wood floors.
Considering all the sloppy mistakes made in this map, the basic level geometry, the gameplay/lighting issues and the lack of 227 content except for some rare exceptions, all this things makes me think that the author pla started making maps very recently when The Descent was made, it's always a great thing so see new mappers join the community but that makes this map feel very strange compared to the rest, it's like a map that was made during the early days of Unreal custom mapping history but at the same time it has some 227 exclusive content, this level is like a hybrid of old and new custom mapping.
Issues I found :
-The dispersion pistol at the start of the map has its collision changed to prevent players from missing it, however this won't work if you play with weapon mutators.
-The automag at the start of the map is inside a chest, since there are players that don't bother destroying decorations this means that someone might miss that gun.
-The water zone on the area where the automag is pushes you in a specific direction, unfortunately the area where the hidden armor and weapon power up are uses the same zone which makes grabbing those items annoying.
-That very Water Zone I mentioned early has bFogZone set to False, but the zone at the top has that set to True causing some strange visual oddities.
-The wooden floor that collapses can hurt you, if you are unlucky this can kill you unexpectedly.
-The Stinger shouldn't be a secret weapon especially in a map that has the ASMD and Eightball as normal pickups, to add insult to injury the first Stinger secret is very well hidden since the button that activates the secret blends with the environment. The Stinger is better hidden than the Sniper Rifle
. Also the location of the second secret Stinger is completely redundant.
-The movers that open the Sniper Rifle area are Trigger Toggle, which doesn't make any sense, also for some reason this movers use a huge number in StayOpenTime, Trigger Toggle movers are unaffected by that variable.
-The textures of the waterfall are misaligned which makes those surfaces look very ugly.
-Some movers are CrushWhenEncroach like the lift near the ASMD and some of the parts of the floor that collapse, big mistake.
-The texture used for the water impact at the bottom of the waterfall looks very ugly, this could have been fixed with a panel decoration.
-The windows near the door that takes you to the Titan arena don't break when you shoot them, there's another glass right next to that place that can break when you shoot it, so it's inconsistent. Since the button that opens the door to go to the arena is very close to those windows, it wouldn't hurt the gameplay to make those windows destructible.
-There's a destroyed section near the shield belt that has an invisible wall, this could have been replaced with a visible mover that moves (breaking the wall) after the Titan is defeated.
-The translator message in the Titan arena doesn't deactivate when the fight begins.
-There's a strange visual glitch when you look at the cave when you are in the spot where the Titan spawns, most likely caused by fog.
-The Titan is hidden behind a wall, however instead of destroying the wall that wall simply moves down, which is inconsistent with the scripted sequence.
-Having a huge number of Pupae in the final section is very annoying, this could have been fixed with a message that gives you a hint that you aren't suppose to fight the Pupae.
-The map has two jump boots however they aren't that useful especially the second one. There isn't a secret that requires that item.
-This level has two AlarmPoints and they don't do anything.
-The torches that turn on in the Titan arena don't have sounds.
-There are some actors out of bounds like some pathnodes and a LiftCenter.
-The map uses DefaultAmmo and a decoration called "Old", both things are useless.
-There are some water areas that don't have a water zone like the water near the ASMD or the two water areas during the section that's infested with Pupae.
BONUS:
-At the end of the map when you enter that area that takes your weapons away and resets your health, if you throw your weapons before you lose them you can actually grab them again after your weapons get deleted. Thankfully the next map removes your weapons anyway. This issue happens in all the maps in this campaign
. Unfortunately the map doesn't have a story, there is not a single translator event except for the one in the Titan boss arena and the messages is just a hint to start the fight.The level geometry is decent, there are some BSP caves from time to time and I wonder if pla made them or they were made by someone else but they look great (except that there are some texture alignment issues in the cave where you fight the Titan). Movers are used frequently to add destruction to the environment, probably the highlight of the map is the use of this movers. Lighting is decent. there are some strange oddities like that thunder light that appears from time to time and sometimes enemies look odd because of lighting issues. This map uses plenty of fog (just like the rest of the maps in this pack) and it really adds to the atmosphere, every map benefits from having some fog as long as it doesn't ruin the performance of the game, which is something that happened in the original version of this map. Music is good, this map uses songs from the original Unreal which gives this map a very old school feeling to it, also this map uses Guardian.umx
, thankfully The Descent is a 227 exclusive so you don't have to worry about Guardian breaking the game . Sounds are a mixed bag, the map uses plenty of DynamicAmbientSounds but they all play the same sounds and they are all used for the crackling sounds for the wood floors.Considering all the sloppy mistakes made in this map, the basic level geometry, the gameplay/lighting issues and the lack of 227 content except for some rare exceptions, all this things makes me think that the author pla started making maps very recently when The Descent was made, it's always a great thing so see new mappers join the community but that makes this map feel very strange compared to the rest, it's like a map that was made during the early days of Unreal custom mapping history but at the same time it has some 227 exclusive content, this level is like a hybrid of old and new custom mapping.
Issues I found :
-The dispersion pistol at the start of the map has its collision changed to prevent players from missing it, however this won't work if you play with weapon mutators.
-The automag at the start of the map is inside a chest, since there are players that don't bother destroying decorations this means that someone might miss that gun.
-The water zone on the area where the automag is pushes you in a specific direction, unfortunately the area where the hidden armor and weapon power up are uses the same zone which makes grabbing those items annoying.
-That very Water Zone I mentioned early has bFogZone set to False, but the zone at the top has that set to True causing some strange visual oddities.
-The wooden floor that collapses can hurt you, if you are unlucky this can kill you unexpectedly.
-The Stinger shouldn't be a secret weapon especially in a map that has the ASMD and Eightball as normal pickups, to add insult to injury the first Stinger secret is very well hidden since the button that activates the secret blends with the environment. The Stinger is better hidden than the Sniper Rifle
. Also the location of the second secret Stinger is completely redundant.-The movers that open the Sniper Rifle area are Trigger Toggle, which doesn't make any sense, also for some reason this movers use a huge number in StayOpenTime, Trigger Toggle movers are unaffected by that variable.
-The textures of the waterfall are misaligned which makes those surfaces look very ugly.
-Some movers are CrushWhenEncroach like the lift near the ASMD and some of the parts of the floor that collapse, big mistake.
-The texture used for the water impact at the bottom of the waterfall looks very ugly, this could have been fixed with a panel decoration.
-The windows near the door that takes you to the Titan arena don't break when you shoot them, there's another glass right next to that place that can break when you shoot it, so it's inconsistent. Since the button that opens the door to go to the arena is very close to those windows, it wouldn't hurt the gameplay to make those windows destructible.
-There's a destroyed section near the shield belt that has an invisible wall, this could have been replaced with a visible mover that moves (breaking the wall) after the Titan is defeated.
-The translator message in the Titan arena doesn't deactivate when the fight begins.
-There's a strange visual glitch when you look at the cave when you are in the spot where the Titan spawns, most likely caused by fog.
-The Titan is hidden behind a wall, however instead of destroying the wall that wall simply moves down, which is inconsistent with the scripted sequence.
-Having a huge number of Pupae in the final section is very annoying, this could have been fixed with a message that gives you a hint that you aren't suppose to fight the Pupae.
-The map has two jump boots however they aren't that useful especially the second one. There isn't a secret that requires that item.
-This level has two AlarmPoints and they don't do anything.
-The torches that turn on in the Titan arena don't have sounds.
-There are some actors out of bounds like some pathnodes and a LiftCenter.
-The map uses DefaultAmmo and a decoration called "Old", both things are useless.
-There are some water areas that don't have a water zone like the water near the ASMD or the two water areas during the section that's infested with Pupae.
BONUS:
-At the end of the map when you enter that area that takes your weapons away and resets your health, if you throw your weapons before you lose them you can actually grab them again after your weapons get deleted. Thankfully the next map removes your weapons anyway. This issue happens in all the maps in this campaign
Somewhere in Nevada...