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The Fog Poll

For public discussion of "Savage Land" and other Red Nemesis projects.

Moderator: Mister_Prophet

Do You Enable Fog When Playing Unreal SP Maps?

Yes, always.
14
100%
No, Never.
0
No votes
 
Total votes: 14

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 15 Jan 2023, 19:00

This might seem rather trite, but it has come to my attention that some players of Unreal SP (and mappers for that matter) do not enable or or play with volumetric Fog as a default option on Unreal and Unreal Tournament 99. To be clear, this is NOT a discussion about Distance Fog as seen in 227, but regular ole Unreal Fog that has been a thing since 1998.

I'm running this poll for mapping reasons and am curious to see opinions...especially for people who strongly feel that fog is not a necessity.

Krull0r
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 15 Jan 2023, 19:43

Volumetric fog adds a lot to the atmosphere in my opinion. I always have it enabled.

But as a mapper I try to avoid volumetric fog in huge areas since they eat lots of performance. Especially when using surfaces with HighDetailed shadows.

Having fog in the right place and it does not affect performance at all it is always eye candy to me :)

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 15 Jan 2023, 20:02

Yes, I am in your camp on the Fog issue. For me I do tend to use it sometimes as an environment 'mask', as in a case of say showing that daylight is present without using the traditional Unreal fakebackdrop...or in other ways where I need to blind the player in some way while convincing that an area has a wider depth than can be seen.

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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 15 Jan 2023, 20:16

Definately play with volumetric fog enabled. While I do prefer per zone distancefog feature in 227 as it performs better than the point light volumetric sphere fog, even when I don't have that as an option in the map i'm playing I will still make sure to keep it enabled for maps which rely on it (same way i wouldn't really play without other visual features nor go out of my way to disable them etc).
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Masterkent
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 15:39

I'd say that some maps look much better with disabled VolumetricLighting than with having it enabled. F.e., take a look at the screenshots made with 227k's D3D9 renderer. As you can see, there's ugly banding on fogged walls, the water surface and the sky are not affected by fog at all.

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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 28 Jan 2023, 17:50

That would be a genuine example of something that might turn off people to fog, yes, though those screenshots are of a level that isn't implementing its fog in conjunction with a skybox (such things can be fixed). In general I tend to try to avoid fog in outdoor areas as it is for precisely these kinds of reasons since it is much more difficult to balance. Also, that's definitely Volumetric lighting in those shots or is it distance fog?

Mostly, it's how volumetric lighting is implemented in interior locations for atmosphere that suffer most from missing fog checks in my opinion (and where I personally tend to lean on it). Clearly our forum poll isn't going to draw in the dissenters against fog I was hoping to converse with (if even any users on the forum are such players). But Masterkent brings up a legitimate reason. Smarten up the level flourish is the answer methinks :o

Masterkent
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 13:49

Mister_Prophet wrote:Also, that's definitely Volumetric lighting in those shots or is it distance fog?

This map was made for UT, hence it couldn't use distance fog. It has bFogZone set to true in ZoneInfo actors.

User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 29 Jan 2023, 18:31

I see. There are techniques that mapper could use in that situation to prevent the clash line with the sky, but I would say that it is probably risky to use fog like they are using it in an outdoor area.

I suppose the best we can do is suggest strongly that people consider enabling it.

User avatar Sat42
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 15 Feb 2023, 00:21

A bit later than the rest, but adding my voice to the pro fog camp: I totally acknowledge the original Unreal Engine's limitations with fog (showcased by that previous example shared by Masterkent, but also if you shoot and the projectile hits a wall behind fog, the new decal pops right through it - I think 227 corrected that? anyway, rash implementation can ruin the effect and with amateurs having a go at mapping bad examples were bound to emerge), but it's still an undeniable plus most of the time. I was actually shocked the first time I realised a mappack felt the need to remind players to make sure they have fog turned on - I can't imagine anyone would want it off! but yeah better safe than sorry: make it clear to people that the map or mappack was made with fog enabled in mind.
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User avatar Preki
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 16 Feb 2023, 20:11

Sat42 wrote:but also if you shoot and the projectile hits a wall behind fog, the new decal pops right through it

Bear in mind that original Unreal, from the 200 retail version up to 226 official patch never had any decals to begin with! So levels were designed without these in mind. UT added decals, but the use of volumetric fog in this game is sparse, probably due to decals clipping through the fog, and the thicker the fog, the more jarring it is.

User avatar Sat42
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 17 Feb 2023, 18:24

Preki wrote:
Sat42 wrote:but also if you shoot and the projectile hits a wall behind fog, the new decal pops right through it

Bear in mind that original Unreal, from the 200 retail version up to 226 official patch never had any decals to begin with! So levels were designed without these in mind. UT added decals, but the use of volumetric fog in this game is sparse, probably due to decals clipping through the fog, and the thicker the fog, the more jarring it is.


Thanks for clarifying that, Preki! I had forgotten that it was UT that added decals :o
Nali: Magic or Telekinesis
Waffnuffly wrote:It's tarydium-doped smoothies. Drunk by the player, I mean. The player is tripping balls. The whole game actually takes place in a large city and the player thinks he's on an alien world.

User avatar fashahhh
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Subject: Re: The Fog Poll

Post Posted: 17 Feb 2023, 22:03

Bit late on this too. I remember my first playthrough of Unreal and volumetric lighting being on by default so never actually played it without. I think it was light coronas that were disabled by default on the original Unreal, I remember going to my cousins and seeing him play it with all the cool corona effects that I didn't think it had.

My maps for Savage lands are leaning fairly heavily on fog usage so hopefully everyone will have it active.


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