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[Project On Hiatus] Dead Cell Development

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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: [Project On Hiatus] Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 09 Jul 2010, 22:48

This thread will follow development material and discussion for Dead Cell


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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 09 Jul 2010, 22:51

Can't do nothing but scream Unreal: The Pitt! :P
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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 09 Jul 2010, 23:00

It's more like Unreal: Cube, or Unreal: Battle Royale. :o

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 09 Jul 2010, 23:56

This is gonna be great. 8)

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 11 Jul 2010, 13:09

And I was hoping locking the other thread meant a release! :B

Still looking forwards to this!

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 20 Jul 2010, 18:05

I see it this way: Unreal: Criminal Origins or even Unreal: Bloodshot... :D
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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 20 Jul 2010, 23:26

If we get the melee just right, it will be.

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 21 Jul 2010, 18:23

Mister_Prophet wrote:If we get the melee just right, it will be.


I don't think there is enough games with interesting melee combat like that! :tup:

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2010, 02:53

First I wanted to ask about any technical sections you might supply users in the future, either for questions on upcoming new features that are to come with DC and later iterations of RN projects (which will later become a tech help thread or something after DC's release) and also about the little page on the RN site concerning the technology in question that reveals nothing but a few interesting pictures and asks for a member login.

Okay, now to my questions on the tech and upcoming content itself. Most are minor but concern the customization one might be able to make with some of the features we've been made aware of.

1) On the whole, how can one customize their transitions from sublevel to sublevel? Things like how the loading screen looks and works specific to a given project's needs. Can they be a simple screen freeze while the level loads without any other visible signs of level travel? Can there be different types of loading screens aside ones that identify the upcoming area of the given location? How will these "default" level screens be customized in general?

2) [Creatures]-Firstly, I wanted to know about what these new pawn options do. When you say give pawns shield belts, do you mean something similar to what ONP did, just with other types of inventory. And I'm also curious about the carcass settings you mentioned since I don't quite understand what this could be used for. Basically, what would be a good line to use to describe these pawns compared to their original counterparts? What pluses are there in these that add to the whole of RN tech, even if they're just for pawns?

3) [Characters/Bot Replacers]-What's up with these so far, and (how) can we use them in our own projects? With customizable behavior that works for SP, how much is customizing these down to code/property changes, and for the latter, I'd like to refer the Qtit's computer actors, which require setting up multiple fields in the properties themselves (not too hard but a bit more hard core than most actor's properties)?

4) [Beasts and Men]-This is more for both the creatures and character pawns. This is a very simple and brief question. Mainly what I'm asking here is, with the character pawns, are there ways of making creature characters and how would they be done, if at all?

5) [Melee!!]-Not so much of how this will work, though I do have one question, but will we be able to use this too? Also, what is your intent concerning this system's functionality from simple weapons like fists, spiked clubs, and sledge hammers, to large weapons like some you've mentioned in the FAQ, and with how many adversaries can one engage with this system? And to top it off, can one go against a melee-wielding opponent with a gun and vice-verse if one chooses?

6) [Game Types]-Um, yeah, you mentioned in another topic that there will be gametypes available with DC. Wanting to be clear on that matter, what purposes do these gametypes serve exactly and why would some want to use any of them in particular?

I'm done so...yeah, that's it.
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User avatar Mister_Prophet
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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 19 Aug 2010, 22:40

Holy shit Jet!

Jet v4.3.5 wrote:First I wanted to ask about any technical sections you might supply users in the future, either for questions on upcoming new features that are to come with DC and later iterations of RN projects (which will later become a tech help thread or something after DC's release) and also about the little page on the RN site concerning the technology in question that reveals nothing but a few interesting pictures and asks for a member login.


That's more of a placeholder right now. The site was made without a deadline in sight, so we put that there for when RD (then, our only ongoing project) got released and we needed to explain how to use all our custom "stuff" to mappers and modders curious to try. Obviously this will extend to Dead Cell tech, and things released with that mod. So basically, any question anyone has about using any of our assets will be placed there.


Jet v4.3.5 wrote:Okay, now to my questions on the tech and upcoming content itself. Most are minor but concern the customization one might be able to make with some of the features we've been made aware of.

1) On the whole, how can one customize their transitions from sublevel to sublevel? Things like how the loading screen looks and works specific to a given project's needs. Can they be a simple screen freeze while the level loads without any other visible signs of level travel? Can there be different types of loading screens aside ones that identify the upcoming area of the given location? How will these "default" level screens be customized in general?


Well...the plan is to handle this solely through actors, either via special end/entry level actors (which will replace teleporters) or some kind of global actor. The way I want to do this is that the "default" loading screen will say "LOADING" or some other text with the option to color code it. There will be a space for a mapper to add screenshots (either from MyLevel or another custom .utx) that will fill the screen with the text, and people can do with this however they like (even use an animated texture). Other options we will probably look into include is an optional true/false value for if you want to make the player have to press a key to get out of the loading screen and begin the next section or to make the loading transition end automatically (this is in case mappers want to use transitional images to post hints or information about the next area). I won't really have a final answer on this until DC is in beta, but these are basically the kinds of things we will put into the first version of this system. I'll have a more complete list of features for release or during beta. It's also the kind of thing that will appear on the Tech section of the site.

Jet v4.3.5 wrote:2) [Creatures]-Firstly, I wanted to know about what these new pawn options do. When you say give pawns shield belts, do you mean something similar to what ONP did, just with other types of inventory. And I'm also curious about the carcass settings you mentioned since I don't quite understand what this could be used for. Basically, what would be a good line to use to describe these pawns compared to their original counterparts? What pluses are there in these that add to the whole of RN tech, even if they're just for pawns?


With Dead Cell we will only be introducing DC pawns and a custom .u that is separate from DC but included for mapper's convenience that has alternate versions of all the Unreal pawns. All this will do is include slots for each Unreal pawn to be equipped with a shieldbelt (with color options) and a feature from DC called "carcass skin," which includes a slot for a custom skin to be played on an enemy carcass when killed (for example, blood). This is a pretty straightforward thing, and it might get some more tweaking come beta. Granted, the extent of damage/combat for DC is not final, so this package might get more additions by the time we go beta.



Jet v4.3.5 wrote:3) [Characters/Bot Replacers]-What's up with these so far, and (how) can we use them in our own projects? With customizable behavior that works for SP, how much is customizing these down to code/property changes, and for the latter, I'd like to refer the Qtit's computer actors, which require setting up multiple fields in the properties themselves (not too hard but a bit more hard core than most actor's properties)?


This is the kind of thing I'll have to explain down the road when we're closer to beta, or even when we release. It's also the kind of thing that will appear on the Tech section of the site. All I can say now is that more actors can be used to dictate the actions or appearance of pawns, and behaviors for individual pawns will be similar to how they are now...only they will actually work and have very noticable changes.

Jet v4.3.5 wrote:4) [Beasts and Men]-This is more for both the creatures and character pawns. This is a very simple and brief question. Mainly what I'm asking here is, with the character pawns, are there ways of making creature characters and how would they be done, if at all?


Are you asking me if the things we're doing with the human character's in Dead Cell be portable to Unreal creature pawn? Yes. In fact, it will be easier because the Unreal creature classes are all based on models that already exist, whereas our human characters for Dead Cell are being made specifically for DC and take more time.

Jet v4.3.5 wrote:5) [Melee!!]-Not so much of how this will work, though I do have one question, but will we be able to use this too? Also, what is your intent concerning this system's functionality from simple weapons like fists, spiked clubs, and sledge hammers, to large weapons like some you've mentioned in the FAQ, and with how many adversaries can one engage with this system? And to top it off, can one go against a melee-wielding opponent with a gun and vice-verse if one chooses?


You will be able to use everything we do in DC. That's the point of us going through all this trouble to emphasis user availability.

The Melee system in Dead Cell...well, look. This system isn't being tested for, let's say, use in the Unreal campaign. Or Xidia. Or any preexisting SP using standard, or near-standard Unreal gametypes and enemies. It's important that people realize this. Dead Cell is essentially a series of duels, so the nature of our combat is very particular. Modders and level designers wishing to use our melee system (or ANY system made specific to DC) needs to be aware of these facts. I can tell you that DC pawns will react on a one-on-one situation with the melee system and fight you accordingly. I can't tell you that you can use a DC sledgehammer in RTNP and expect basic Unreal pawns to recognize a combat system they weren't coded/scripted for. If you want to use our Melee weapons than you also have to use pawns that know how to behave with them.

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Our DC characters operate on a system where they will know how to block, attack, and counter with a melee weapon. They will fight according to a behavior set by their properties, meaning that they very well might decide to pull a gun on you if you attempt to run up to them with a bat simply because that particular character setting has no qualms about fighting dirty, whereas if you set properties a different way they will ALWAYS match your gun or melee weapon with the appropriate tool. You can even make a pawn decide to flee in any combat situation, like if they don't have a gun and you do. But to use our melee weapons, you have to use our pawns...or emulate certain qualities from them in your own work.

Granted, by the time RD rolls around this system will be integrated with a wider list of pawns and will feature more attack/parry customization. What you'll get with DC is a functional melee system with pawns that can handle them, and our best instructions on how to make pawns react to these weapons accordingly (which you'll have to do if you want to...say...make a traditional Unreal campaign with traditional enemies but with our melee weapon options).

I'll give you an example. Say Mod A is in development and sees how melee is done in DC. They can study the code from what we did and we'll have tips on how to add those properties to basic pawns, or their own. You just need to understand that in order to make this system work, we had to look at enemy AI from the ground up and alter it. There is a reason why melee weapons for UT and most Unreal SPs are pretty basic and consist of waving a weapon close enough to a pawn's collision radius to register damage. It's because Unreal/UT AI is shitty when it comes to melee combat and isn't wired to deal with concepts like blocking, counter attack or anything like that. Look at any Unreal pawn that has a melee attack. They will get close to you and attempt to hurt you, and if you move away they will follow and try to get close enough to do it again. There simply hasn't been a system in place for a new way of doing this before.

We may specialize a few Unreal primary pawns specially for this system by the time we reach beta or release, but on that I can only speculate.

Jet v4.3.5 wrote:6) [Game Types]-Um, yeah, you mentioned in another topic that there will be gametypes available with DC. Wanting to be clear on that matter, what purposes do these gametypes serve exactly and why would some want to use any of them in particular?


I don't remember what conversation you're referring to exactly. But if you're talking about what I THINK you're talking about, I don't want to release something where a mapper or modder has to rely on Dead Cell's gametypes to use Dead Cell's assets, so we'll have "clean" gametypes for basic Single Player that can use DC's stuff without our HUD, ect.

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010, 22:37

Mister_Prophet wrote:The Melee system in Dead Cell...well, look. This system isn't being tested for, let's say, use in the Unreal campaign. Or Xidia. Or any preexisting SP using standard, or near-standard Unreal gametypes and enemies. It's important that people realize this. Dead Cell is essentially a series of duels, so the nature of our combat is very particular. Modders and level designers wishing to use our melee system (or ANY system made specific to DC) needs to be aware of these facts. I can tell you that DC pawns will react on a one-on-one situation with the melee system and fight you accordingly. I can't tell you that you can use a DC sledgehammer in RTNP and expect basic Unreal pawns to recognize a combat system they weren't coded/scripted for. If you want to use our Melee weapons than you also have to use pawns that know how to behave with them.



So... is the melee system in Deadcell more or less the same one that is to be found in RD? Because I'm under the impression there are normal unreal pawns in RD (or normalish :P I'm not sure just how much you're changing in the base game any more), and considering how big RD looks set to be i'm hoping not every fight there will be a one on one duel :P

Still looking forward to both mods like nothing else in gaming of course :D
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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 27 Nov 2010, 22:42

The melee system is basically a test run of what will be in RD later, but the big difference is that RD isn't centered on one-on-one duels, so the style will be different.

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 29 Nov 2010, 19:14

Mister_Prophet wrote:With Dead Cell we will only be introducing DC pawns and a custom .u that is separate from DC but included for mapper's convenience that has alternate versions of all the Unreal pawns.

Will such pawns be capable of Melee combat? For example, Krall able to do some form of blocking with their staves?
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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 29 Nov 2010, 22:21

That's the idea.

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Subject: Re: Dead Cell Development

Post Posted: 29 Nov 2010, 23:31

This looks awesome. Old news but still seems the most fitting way to start. :P

I was reading the official stuff on the RN BU site and it's got me wondering, just how free are we going to be to make choices in this? Or more, how scripted is it going to be?

Like, "Eight people. Eight weapons. One labyrinth of metal, grates, pipes, and steam. And an exit fit for one. You do the math, and write your last journal entry."

and
"all cellmates enter The Arena (the central HUB of Dead Cell) from different access junctions, there is no fixed way to play Caesar's game. You are on your own to locate provisions, clear out secret passages, and ultimately...you will get to chose how and who to fight, when you want to fight them."

I don't know how to ask what I want to ask. I suppose you've just succeeded at tantalising me :P
But the thing that really gets my mind racing, is the fact that you say i will get to chose, how, who and when to fight... but not where.

What kind of AI are we up against? Is this going to be an ultra-replayable 8 person last man standing where the AI can do everything you do, go everywhere you go and essentially emulate a human player? Or is it going to just "feel" like that while in reality there is heavy scripting in the background?

Currently I'm imagining it as an extremely awesome relatively unscripted deathmatch game against some totally pimping bots, in an arena that is so awesome it has to be split across multiple .unr files. Everyone with only one life. I suppose the fact that it's split over multiple .unr files says something :P I doubt the mod will accomodate the engine enhancements required to keep 8 players and however many .unr files stored in memory simultaneously, so here's a bit of wild guessing from me. There will be roughly 7 .unr files: The HUB, then 6 .unr files for 6 of the opponents, the 7th enemy being fought in the hub itself for plot relevant purposes. Or maybe an extra .unr to fight caeser/trip out in some epic twist. Alternatively, to reduce the need to suspend disbelief at the fact you are playing as YET ANOTHER one man army, you will only fight, say.... four of the total seven possible enemies, and imply that the others have already been wasted. (Because come on, is the scoreboard really going to show 7 kills to player one and no kills to everyone else? :P [I am completely aware this isn't a UT deathmatch, and there won't be a scoreboard in that sense :P])

Oh that raises another question: What is the network topology for the .unr files? How are they linked? Will it be a star, with all maps going through the hub? or will you be able to jump from one .unr to another without going through the hub first?
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