Pre-contest discussion archive

[Mister_Prophet]

Presumably, you'd need to be careful of what actors you're putting in the map. As long as all packages are unedited from what was in retail Unreal and you aren't using actors that were not present in Unreal, everything should transition fine. I've done it this way in the past, when Xidia was playable in Unreal.

EDIT: I might simply make my entry, if I do one, in UED 1 through Unreal just to be safe.

[ividyon]

I repeat: Use whatever platform you prefer.

I will probably add a rule which states that 227 maps must be backward compatible to 226, meaning no emitters, new classes, new items etc. after all. That way Unreal 1 mappers can enjoy 227's improved editor and rebuilding algorithms, but are forced to work with the same engine capabilities as 226 and Oldskool, meaning they will deviate from the classic Unreal formula less + gain no advantages from the new content.

UT99 maps do not work in 226. UT99 has ALWAYS been incompatible to 226, which is why the outcries about 227 being incompatible to UT99 are so funny to me . However this isn't a concern for the contest, because people should be able to use whatever platform of the 3 they prefer to work in.

EDIT: Disregard me; UT maps can be backward compatible!

[jackrabbit]

I repeat: Use whatever platform you prefer.
UT99 has ALWAYS been incompatible to 226, which is why the outcries about 227 being incompatible to UT99 are so funny to me

Actually, being careful and only using stock content from the 227 editor (no added emitters, static meshes, ect.), 227 maps are compatible with all versions as long as they are ran though a "Engine.LevelSummary" map converter. This isn't as easy as it sounds because someone might unwillingly add something to their map which is 227 specific. Still, if done right you can be compatible with all platforms. You can also do the same on 225f the last time I checked (and that is without having to run it through the LevelSummary converter).

[Buff Skeleton]

The one and only thing I refuse to do no matter what is map with UED1 because that shit is just unusably horrible

[ividyon]

I repeat: Use whatever platform you prefer.
UT99 has ALWAYS been incompatible to 226, which is why the outcries about 227 being incompatible to UT99 are so funny to me

Actually, being careful and only using stock content from the 227 editor (no added emitters, static meshes, ect.), 227 maps are compatible with all versions as long as they are ran though a "Engine.LevelSummary" map converter. This isn't as easy as it sounds because someone might unwillingly add something to their map which is 227 specific. Still, if done right you can be compatible with all platforms. You can also do the same on 225f the last time I checked (and that is without having to run it through the LevelSummary converter).

That's all great, but still missing the point of my message, namely that people should not worry about any compatibility issues in their favorite platform at all, but about the "classic Unreal" theme, namely using only stock content without 227-specific tech additions.

Once the time for the contest has come, I will present the rules in a clear fashion and list Unreal's stock packages as Waffnuffly suggested.

[Sarevok]

I think we should only be allowed to use the Starship texture pack!

[Doublez-Down]

On another note, does anyone think it might be nice to have categories? Or is that just too restrictive? In other words, we could have "Best Ancient Themed Map" or "Best Skaarj Themed Map", etc. I dunno, just a thought and obviously something that could be decided much later.

[Shivaxi]

And how much more does UT have that's not in 227 already?

That's backwards, cause it's now "How much more does 227 have that's not in UT99" lol



I agree with using no custom content, and keeping it stock as of 225 (so no 227, UT99, or RTNP/Upak specific content)

Being backwards compatible with all versions would be nice, cause as I know it, some people don't have Unreal 1, and some people don't have UT99.

I was also considering having the scoring part not by selected Judges anymore, but by members of USP, like a poll voting system you know? Of course this might cause issues with like some people not playing all the map packs, and people voting for themselves, and then it would be unfair so to speak...

But I dunno, just throwing some ideas out there.

[nikosv]

Stock Unreal 1 textures, sounds, music, actors, etc. People should edit in the 227 editor, and run their maps through the Engine.Levelsummary converter (no point in using UEd1, unless you LIKE it). If they use the UT editor, they should make their map compatible (however it's done with UT, I don't know). No UT context, no RTNP content.

Everyone's maps should be compatible with all versions of Unreal. If we're going to do no custom content, we might as well not leave anyone out due to stupid .unr syntax differences between builds.

I think that custom scripting should be allowed, as long as the script outlines are approved by a panel of judges. The judges would just verify that the script is to perform a particular function. Say, a translator event that only comes up once, or a light actor that blinks three times whenever triggered, or a complex counter trigger. It is up to the judges to decide whether or not the script 'breaks' the style and basic gameplay of Unreal, or draws too much attention to itself. The judges could choose to be very lenient or very strict, but they would probably discuss their views amongst each other before reviewing any scripts (so as to avoid confusion/entropic poll results).

For instance, the judges could vote to deny a scriptedtexture interactive computer panel with dynamic text and GUI functions, arguing that it would be too much of a novelty. They could then suggest a replacement, a simpler scriptedtexture that swaps its textures when triggered. Their supporting reasoning is that Terraniux has some panels that change palette, and thus it would not be a terribly distracting or novel script.

As a result of this judging system, mappers would be limited to only creating a select few scripts for their maps. Definitely for the better, fewer scripts means that the 'Unreal feeling' won't be lost. Scripts do not have to be made by the mapper, they can be scripts that have been around for a while. Approved scripts will be posted in a thread each contest, so other mappers know that they can use them/will not ask the same question. I know this sounds complicated, but once it's applied, and applied effectively, it will be for the better. I can help draw up templates when the time grows nearer.

Lastly, I think that the mappers should try to make their maps co-op compatible, unless one's map simply cannot support it. We might as well give the unreal coop server admins some presents!

[zacman]

In regards to textures... I'd rather like an allowance for some UT Textures like UTTEch1-4 and Indus, as they have some good textures for use in Unreal maps (Illhaven used some UTTEch) although completely different textures like SGTech and Richrig maybe not so much (Even though they're my favourites DX) since they work for a completely different feel to Unreal. What would be interesting would be to host this every year, and perhaps have a yearly "theme" (Skaarj, Nali, Mercenary, Outdoor, Terran, etc.) to make mappers play with different styles

<<EDIT>>

Would things such as THIS be allowed?

[salsaSkaarj]

I was also considering having the scoring part not by selected Judges anymore, but by members of USP, like a poll voting system you know? Of course this might cause issues with like some people not playing all the map packs, and people voting for themselves, and then it would be unfair so to speak...

You've raised an interesting point here.
Concerning Architecture, Texturing, Lighting, Sound and Technical Execution I think judging shoudl be left over to people who have knowledge op map building.
But in regards to Conceptual Grandness, Story Construction, Story Implementation, Gameplay Awe and Gameplay Balance I am certain non-mappers are just as competent and may even be less subject to being influenced by the more technical imperfections (or perfections) than the Hellscrags, Mr. Prophets, Waffnufflys and other UBs (this is not a statement insinuating they are not objective, it's just a fact of life that they have more knowledge which could be of influence).

The gameplay balance does present a problem. Is 1 difficulty setting (Medium or Hard) going to be the basic criterium, or is the implementaion of difficulty settings equally important. IMHO a map should be interesting for everyone which means that judging on 1 difficulty won't work. But this implies that the judges should play each map on all difficulty settings. I for one like to do that but I can imagine not everybody has the time nor the interest (UB doesn't strike me as a player who will embark upon the testing on Easy in the same way as I would, similarly on Unreal difficulty I might not have the gaming ability to judge that difficulty setting properly, whereas UB thrives on Unreal difficulty).

So, I am in favour of members judging, but not for all criteria (or perhaps with a lower weighting factor), and not by all members. Judging should only be allowed for members who are committed to playing all maps and on all designated difficulties. This would mean that the judges require sufficient time (which could turn out to be quite long).

[Jet v4.3.5]

Would things such as THIS be allowed?

Would there by chance or could someone willing to help make one that's a simple .zip extract. The Umod window that pops up denies installing the tools even if I have my correct UT installation selected in the path, even after a UT registry fix. Just wondering. I seem to recall trying to get those tools but having the same thing take place because of this error.

[zacman]

Thats wierd, Umod's don't work on mine but that does... IDK what files are in it (Since its an EXE not a Umod so can't use Umod Browser) If anyone knows all the files, I'll give them to you :S But I think it makes .INI Edits too

[ividyon]

Would things such as THIS be allowed?

Yes. This is not a part of the actual map you create, but part of your editor, so it's fine. It doesn't matter what tools you use to create your level, as long as it only uses Unreal video/audio content, scripts etc.

Everyone's maps should be compatible with all versions of Unreal. If we're going to do no custom content, we might as well not leave anyone out due to stupid .unr syntax differences between builds.

I disagree. It's a relatively pointless investment of time (see the arguments I brought up before), while time is of the essence in a speedmapping contest!

[salsaSkaarj]

Would things such as THIS be allowed?

Would there by chance or could someone willing to help make one that's a simple .zip extract. The Umod window that pops up denies installing the tools even if I have my correct UT installation selected in the path, even after a UT registry fix. Just wondering. I seem to recall trying to get those tools but having the same thing take place because of this error.

I don't see the problem (perhaps I understood your question wrong). The file is a .exe but you could rename it to .zip. Any decent compression program will then open it without having to execute it. Try Winrar (or even try Total Commander which can open the most popular archives). (PS I use TC with WinRar and Arj as add-ons)