ividyon will never get this done, will he.

3/12/2007 - "Tension at..." by Mr.Prophet

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Subject: 3/12/2007 - "Tension at..." by Mr.Prophet

Post Posted: 03 Dec 2007, 17:52

Map Title: Tension at Vandora's Temple
Author: Will "Mr.Prophet" Drekker
From: 7 Bullets
Filename: jones-06-vandora.unr
Video Playthrough: http://www.dailymotion.com/MMAN2/video/6186926

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Synopsis: Jones comes across the Temple of Vandora, now taken over by Humans and having some Arachnid problems.
Last edited by Semfry on 06 Dec 2007, 15:26, edited 1 time in total.

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Post Posted: 03 Dec 2007, 18:42

Since I was dumb enough to play through 7b on Unreal difficulty, this map followed strictly to it's name. lol
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Post Posted: 03 Dec 2007, 18:58

Not a real looker, but there were some sweet combats in this map, i also love how the map intertwines with itself. Plus it's awesome how one of unreal's most magical maps is 7b's most gritty map, now this is how a redux should be done.

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Post Posted: 03 Dec 2007, 21:21

There's alot I like about this map, but the diaries dotted around the level are one of the major highpoints to me. They genuinely seem like Diaries written by criminals instead of just exposition into a book. They painted a vivid picture of what the people were like before you came along.

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Subject: Must spoil the map to everyone.

Post Posted: 03 Dec 2007, 23:15

Awesome Mister Prophet in the awesome commentary wrote:Tension at Vandora's Temple" is arguably the best Redux'd map in the pack and I think this is one of my best contributions to 7 Bullets.


And I can't agree more.

It's a nice thing seeing a true classic (and I mean true - every Unreal fan should remember Vandora before any other map) again, and in its new state. Old Vandora was magical, the new one's atmosphere is different: rough, dirty, scary and more silencious than before.

The build is the best point of the level. The level of detail is pretty damn high, not to mention the lighting. Yeah, lighting. Those lamps found in the corridors are connected nicely, not to mention the rest like those big searchlights found in the first valley you pass.
The appearance of the acid polls was a bit unexpected, proof that human people are incredible with pollution powers. Someone must make a cartoon with some heroes fighting "The Polluter", a team of polluters that are trying to look as awesome as "The Corrupt" :P
Honestly I would liked to have more exploration, but the acid polls fit with the map theme IMO.
Of course, I'll never forgot the new 7B grass. I never liked it, for this reason: I walk in a valley. Suddenly big-sized groups of grass appear in my view. Definitely scary and a nice contribution to the weird world that's 7B :o

Texturing is good, used perfectly with any kind of details. Perfect implementation of a wooden board to cover a small hole! Okay, on a serious note, see the second screenshot posted above.
In my opinion, it doesn't really remind of "Vandora"... I recall this problem even in the previous maps.
It is indeed Unreal, but not Vandora. It's weird to see... all the new stuff seen in this map was made later by the Nali, after Unreal? But nothing really critical or I may care of. Just awesome is my answer to the build.

And so to the rest: dead bodies, the Spinner lair, all the metal stuff made up by the pirates, etc... So hard to comment it...

Small words: build owns. Let's go see other things...

Translator messages. A lot of them. Diaries, diaries and diaries. One is a rapist, one is a Nali killer, and others are guys coming from the Vortex Rikers. I clearly remember their names, at least we have the chances here to kill them.

So, first level in which you fight the things that ruined 7B's latest part in the gameplay department: Human pirates.
Or Bot Pirates. Seriously, with all of those guys you can kill everyone in this planet. Dodge, dodge, Plasma beam = dead. But I did the same: dodge, dodge, jump, dodge, Plasma Beam = dead.
I never thought how damn the Plasma Rifle was powerful against bots, especially against Petra.
She was the easiest pirate to defeat. She comes, you fire a red beam at her for a while, for whatever gameplay reasons she's unable to fire while being hit by the red thing = Petra defeated.

A slug compared to the group she controls... the White Lotus guys. Dudes, the battle in that arena (AKA Main 7B Promo Screenshot Place) was just frustrating (never as the Noork Lift's one). Fortunately, they react some seconds later and you have all the time to hide somewhere and using your Plasma Rifle/Machine Mags.

I had to load lots of times the game. Not only for the various Pirates/Machine Gun Turrets fighting, but also for my completely ignorance with using the new Translator; I forgot: where to get the codes - using the new Translator feature. Oh wait, I didn't have the center wheel on the mouse at the time... :o

The best part of the level was, obviously, the break from Pirate fighting. Long live the Spinner critters. The Spinner Queen rocks. Seriously, the best boss fight for Unreal right now. She's damn fun, angry and hungry of Flak.
And surprisingly, the small Spinners were even more annoying than their Queen, not to mention the Egglayers :x
Dispersion Pistol saves the day of course, and CARifle if used well.
I remember those Spinners corridors being very basic though. And no, they fail at breaking walls suddenly.

The gameplay is a mixed bag in conclusion. Bots + hitscan weapons + Single Player = Not good. Luck comes to much into play, Shock Combos included. Fortunately the Plasma Rifle manages to solve most of the problems, and so the Spinners. I still don't like it though, but never as worse as the next map.
Fortunately there's a lot of stuff to get throughout the level.

For other stuff, I remember the map's entrance to be incredibly atmospheric. Tentacles, mushrooms... and probably the best thing is seeing the Vandora Temple's arena again. Can't forgot that moment.
I was surprised that Vandora's pic wasn't ruined by the bots :o
Scarred One's apperance manages to blew me away (it's a nice detail too, showing that the Nemesis is still searching for you).

Poor Nali too... Damn the view of the human race, but that's a point in favour for 7B's Story :tup:

It's an amazing, atmospheric map, like the rest which comes later. And unfortunately, suffering from the same gameplay problems.
Still a great return of a classic.
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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 03:10

Aye, I'll be the first to admit that some areas of the map (namely, the halls around the Spinner Queen lair) were very basic. I do not recall if I mentioned this in the commentary, but when I was constructing that section I ran into a series of really nasty BSP errors (in fact, I think if you rebuild geometry on the current map as it is, you'll prolly unlock a whole bunch of ungodly things) and they basically forced me to scrap my original idea for the lower sections. Originally you would have dropped into a sort of "spinner hive" area, but I had to scrap all of it. When I replaced it with a simplistic ancient segment infested with webs instead, even then I ran into problems so the final product was a series of simple halls based around a combat arena.

Oh the bots. Hmmm hmm. Yeah, I'll never do that to anyone again. I promise :o

Despite the above mentioned things, I still am very happy with how the redux came out. I was going to retexture the whole thing with the new set but I didn't want to pull an ONP and start making drastic changes to the appearance of classic maps. In retrospect, if I could do it again I probably would have retextured it all since the concept of "surface temple/subterranean temple" didn't quite convince in the end. I'm most satisfied with the log material here, I think one thing 7B certainly did right was provide interesting reading here and there compared to the standard issue "we got killed by the skaarjs" found in most packs (Xidia included). I think it really gave the player more incentive to play the map and read things instead of sighing when they approach a book knowing that whatever they read will sound like the last ten diary entries before it. It's a taste of things to come from RD, where the log material you uncover (written or otherwise) really tells a story within a story.

If I can find faults with this map...well...besides wishing to give the build quality a better shot...I would have liked to rethink how we did the Pirates. Playing the pack over and over, years later...the botness really starts to show. I also kind of feel that the introduction to Drago scene had an awkward first impression, since those samples eVOLVE did sound a little off compared to the others. Another learning experience for RD; Don't do cutscenes unless you're gonna do them right.

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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 11:13

Mister_Prophet wrote:Aye, I'll be the first to admit that some areas of the map (namely, the halls around the Spinner Queen lair) were very basic. I do not recall if I mentioned this in the commentary, but when I was constructing that section I ran into a series of really nasty BSP errors (in fact, I think if you rebuild geometry on the current map as it is, you'll prolly unlock a whole bunch of ungodly things) and they basically forced me to scrap my original idea for the lower sections. Originally you would have dropped into a sort of "spinner hive" area, but I had to scrap all of it. When I replaced it with a simplistic ancient segment infested with webs instead, even then I ran into problems so the final product was a series of simple halls based around a combat arena.


Can't forgot the part of the commentary when "Petra's room rips in half" :o
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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 11:31

Oh yeah that was another area that gave me loads of crap as well. Ended up being very different in the end.

Hard to imagine what the hell it would have all looked like if I had a stable foundation to work from. Damn epic maps :o

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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 11:32

Commentary text:

7B Commentary wrote:---------------------------------
[6] "Tension at Vandora's Temple"
---------------------------------

* Mr.Prophet:

There is always that one map that is like a cancerous wart growing on the ball sac of any map pack. Map6 went through so many frustrating bugs that 80% of the time that was spent on it was fixing BSP errors. No joke.
Map6 is probably the best Redux'd map in the pack just on the basis that so much has been altered. It's also the first map that has the Terran Pirate enemies appear, making them the last major opposition in 7 Bullets. The map is the first true unique experience of 7 Bullets, until now human pawns in Unreal SP have been only appeared as singular enemies that appear once and are rather unbalanced. Even the Marines in RTNP were very bot like and they only showed up for one combat sequence. The entire last half of 7 Bullets has Terran enemies as the main opposition, which starts in this map.
I had a lot to live up to with this map. Not only was I introducing the new major oppositional factor of the game but I was reinventing one of Unreal's all time classic maps and I had to do it in a slick way. I figured the best way to present the map was to start it off in a location that had nothing to do with it. The player has to move through a brief area that connects the style of the last 3 maps to the style of the old Vandora temple. The player actually finds the link through a deteriorated hole in the wall (an often handy tool in 7 Bullets) and steps out of this cave that cuts into the wall of the Theater from the old Vandora's Temple titan fight area. This is one of my favorite parts of the map just because I like how the environment just casually feeds into one of the all time legendary maps from Unreal and you almost don't realize it.
The new theme was rather intriguing. I always liked how locations in Unreal were always corrupted or overtaken by the Skaarj or whatever occupying alien presence was there to twist the place around. To portray the Terran Pirates in the same survivalist role only seemed natural. Not only did this provide me with a flexible set of tools to work with to add portable generators and human content into the old level, but it also developed the role of the Terran pirates on Na Pali. Basically I wanted to convey the notion that humans are just another alien race to be stranded on Na Pali and forced to use whatever means at their disposal to ensure their survival. Thus turning a temple once occupied by Skaarj to a temple now occupied by Terrans.
I had to change the lighting significantly, especially the god-awful coronas the original Unreal version had. I kept most of the textures from the original there but added to them and the decaying visual appearance of the temple. I wanted to show how the place had been overrun but also show that it was still a ruin. Several areas are in a lot worse shape then they were 12 years prior in the story and there is an entire subplot to the map that explains how a cave in buried many passages. This subplot leads to one of the map's two boss fights against the Spinner Queen.
That fight is directly inspired by a similar boss fight from Xidia Gold, where the player wanders into a spinner lair. This area puts to rest the massive infestation questions from Darth's Lost Passage of Vandora, finishing the whole Spinner segment of the pack. Aside from the Spinner Queen and some of her babies, the rest of the map pits the player against Human enemies and automated turrets.
"Tension at Vandora's Temple" is arguably the best Redux'd map in the pack and I think this is one of my best contributions to 7 Bullets. My favorite combat scenarios in 7 Bullets are in here, the fight with the Spinner Queen is one of the best constructed fight scenes I've personally put together. The romp against the White Lotus warriors is the first real rough battle in the entire game (IMO). This map is essentially a wake-up call to any player who felt as if the last few maps were getting soft.


* Darth Weasel:

DIE.

This map flipped a shit on Prophets computer, so i had to take it once it had everything added and work out all these little problems. With each and every one of these little bugs, I had to change something that might have an effect, rebuild for 20minutes, test. Of course, in UEd's bastardry, fixing one problem on one side of the map created another on the other side. I shit you not. Move a little hill thing in the spider cave (what the hell kind of brush is that to use for terrain anyways Proph?) and we'd have huge holes at the start. Change the solidity of a torch at the start, the Petra fight room suddenly rips in half, etc etc Et.Fucking.Cetera.

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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 11:56

Yeah, it got so bad that I couldn't even rebuild geometry without UED crashing at one point. That was when I made the map on my old, cruddy computer so I had to send the map to Darth (and I think UA tried too) and let them rebuild it, and send it back. Only, when I got it back it had other bugs and we had to repeat the process a whole mess of times.

It took months! Just us trying to nab all the errors while the major components were all ready. And this is after I had to reconstruct certain areas just to get them somewhat BSP friendly. Namely, dumbing down certain sections into more basic designs. So you can imagine what kind of frustration it was when the map was basically ready to be played but we were delayed over and over because every rebuild unlocked a whole feast of other problems that weren't there previously. The whole ordeal more or less made me regret ever relying on so many redux maps from the main game...it was just too frustrating! I think after this the last redux map I worked on was Noork, and it shows. That map is FAR more basic design wise simply because I was afraid to mess with the tender foundation set by the original Noork's Elbow...which already had it's own very visible BSP glitches simply when I retextured the original UNR and did a rebuild.

In the end, the map payed off and came out much better than I feared it would (There was a time when the bugs were so bad I half considered scrapping it and starting over). But I don't think I can ever try reduxing an old Unreal map ever again after Seven Bullets. It's just too nerve racking :)

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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 21:39

I'd love to see an MMan playthrough of epic proportions :o

I'm always curious as to how other people play my maps...since they always seem to do it differently than I intended or how I play it myself.

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Subject: Re: Must spoil the map to everyone.

Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 22:01

UBerserker wrote:and I mean true - every Unreal fan should remember Vandora before any other map


Vandora..? More memorable than any other map?


:?


What about.. Na Pali Haven? Bluff Eversmoking? The Sunspire? The Source?

The Temple of Vandora was in fact rather mediocre..


..and to be honest I can't even remember anything about the redux version, sorry :oops:
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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 22:03

It had bugs in it. And bots.

And shrooms :)

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Subject: Re: Must spoil the map to everyone.

Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 22:19

sana wrote:
UBerserker wrote:and I mean true - every Unreal fan should remember Vandora before any other map


Vandora..? More memorable than any other map?


:?


Yes in various degrees. No one can forgot Vandora's boobs, not even you :P
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Post Posted: 04 Dec 2007, 22:36

I actually had a graffiti version of that for Tension, the Nali Boob painting. Kinda like the Pirates spray painted obscene things on it. I dunno why I never added it. Don't have it anymore regardless. I also was gonna add a bit where one Pirate was setting fire to a bunch of dead Nali corpses with fuel splashed all over them. But it was in a segment that got buggered by the BSP bugs and I ended up shortening that bit so it was just Petra's combat scene.

Shame.

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