Not worth the trouble because they are poorly coded and pretty terrible in overall quality, maybe except for the Spinners.

Use one of the various extracted Monster Files that, afaik, work fine in all vers, like the ones that MH mappers use god awefully? (Six foot instagib predators. dear god.)

I suppose I'm the only one that feels that...maybe...we should stick to omitting anything but Unreal for content purposes, RTNP music included? This way we don't have to pick and choose what we take from it or what we don't? Either that or we should include all RTNP content and allow RTNP maps to be made for the contest. One or the other.

Borrowing RTNP music is really simple. There's only about 10 .umx files, and the only time-consuming part of putting together an archive with them all is selecting the files and uploading them.

Borrowing textures, code, or anything else is opening up a huge can of worms. You have to test them to make sure they work as intended, then you have to ensure they work on all platforms, and THEN you have to make sure everyone has the same .u file and there are no version conflicts that can cause mismatches online, etc.

I'm totally against using anything outside of .umx files from RTNP because it's just inviting a clusterfuck. With music files, you don't have this potential problem because they are really, really easy to use.

IDK, I'd like to see some of the RTNP stuff used better, but my opinion in regards to RTNP stuff is more as a player, I personally don't intend to use it (Because IMO Skaarj look cooler =P)

If someone puts up a package of RtNP music so everyone could get at it I think that would work, but be careful what is allowed. If RtNP music is allowed you will gets loads of people asking for RtNP textures, RtNP sounds, RtNP creatures, RtNP etc. There can not be any lenience in the restrictions or we will get buckets of Dead Cells and ISV Dragonflies at the end.

If there is a list of stock Unreal files I will be happy to use only those, as long as I can map with UT's editor and play with oldskool.

Sorry for discussing some older points of the thread, I just haven't commented here recently.

RTNP music could work, though Unreal Tournament has its own Ending.umx file. I can't think of any other conflicts with RTNP files (besides UPak being incompatible I assume).

The whole thing zipped weighs in at just under 9MB so size shouldn't be much of a problem.

Personally I still think we should be sticking to Unreal content only. Also I like the sound of having to work towards a specific goal just like in that old contest.

This contest thingy, while being in classic Unreal flavor, doesn't necessarily have to follow standard story lines does it?

I would like to think that part of it is up to the mapper's discretion.

I'd like to start a poll soon, addressing all of the points that have come up. I believe the larger disagreements were on cross-compatibility, non-stock .u files, UT textures, and RTNP music? Each issue will have a separate poll question.

Seriously, why RTNP music is such a big matter? They're anything but Unreal-related.

"You can't use Twilight.umx but you can use Dusk.umx which is almost the same thing except suckier". It makes no sense.

RTNP music is in.

I think you guys, the ones who are going to make maps, should try to reach consensus (ok, majority decision then). Non-mappers like myself may have taken a liking to predators or RTNP textures (or 227 features) but the decision ultimately rests with the contest entrants who initially have to decide what they're going to take a decision about (and how).

I think we could logically exclude certain options with a progressive series of polls (if we even end up needing more than one)

Example:

"Custom Content: what are we going to use?

• Stock U1 content only, no assets from other games (including RTNP)
• Stock U1 content plus limited, predefined content from RTNP -only-
• Stock U1 content plus content from RTNP and UT
• Anything you want

"

The first choice removes the need for a second poll, as does the last. The second choice, if it wins, can then lead to:

"What content will we allow?

• Custom music from RTNP
• Custom music + textures from RTNP
• Custom music, textures, and scripts from RTNP

"

and so on.

[Edit] and whatever is ultimately decided can be put into a package that is tested to work on all versions of the game for distribution with any maps that use said content.

I know I should wait, but I'd obviously vote the choice for Unreal stock content with RTNP music (no Upak though). I would definitely enter the contest and vow to finish something before the time limit if this were chosen.

Not only that, I could help people (regardless of what platform they map on) get their maps to work all version of Unreal and UT. I can't promise 100% that if people map on UT they can get their map in 227's editor without rebuilding, but in theroy it should be very possible to do. Believe me, I'd know (getting 7 bullets to half work in 227 WITHOUT rebuilding).

Honestly, the thing that really did put me off on the last Anniversary speed-mapping contest was the lack of compatibility between Unreal and UT. Using only stock content + RTNP music definitely fixes that issue.

EDIT: Also, another issue that needs to be addressed is 'MyLevel'ing.

That's certainly noble of you Rabbit, though it would be prudent for all mappers involved to make room for this themselves at the outset. It doesn't take much to do this right if our limitations are tight. Depending on what dependencies/content agreement we vote on...well frankly, there's no excuse as to why any map shouldn't be configured with this in mind. If stock is the way we go then any version woes should be minimal, if they exist at all.



If we do all vote toward a stock content option I think this issue will resolve itself.

----

Also, just to be clear on my stance on the RTNP music, it is simply to keep it relative to Unreal stock material, which I feel is the best idea for this. The simpler the parameters the better. It's not because I think using RTNP is a bad idea or that I'm opposed to the tracks being used.