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EXU2: Batshit Insane - Demo 3

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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 13 Feb 2009, 22:26

I'm working on a global damage and speed nerf for Easy and Medium (different for each one, of course) difficulty. I'll have something for you guys to try out in a little bit, but I don't expect this alone to fix everything. It's going to take a lot more aggressive difficulty filtering in the maps on my part to get the balance just right, but from what I'm reading, you guys on Easy REALLY hate the fast projectiles, right? I'll work on getting them more to a lower speed where you don't have to have lightning reflexes to avoid them.

Me, personally? I love the fast projectiles, which is why I designed EXU the way I did. They add challenge and make it harder for me to get through fights without taking damage. But not everyone is me, as has been made very clear, so I'm going to do what I can and not give up on the balance for lower difficulties just because I don't play them. However, it's impossible for me to know whether or not the balance changes I make for them are actually working unless you guys tell me, so please continue to let me know what works and what doesn't! I'm eternally grateful for any help you guys offer, but for this task, I will really need it.

Jethro wrote:Sooo I copied all the mp3's to System folder and I still hear no music. Probably was meant to be that way (map 2).
Is there any way to kill the Stupid Pulse Magican? Because neither unloading full Sh1tgun ammo nor full automag clip works....

Telefrag him. It's really easy to get close since he's, well, stupid, and doesn't pay a lot of attention!

User avatar Jethro
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Post Posted: 13 Feb 2009, 22:31

Waffnuffly wrote:Telefrag him. It's really easy to get close since he's, well, stupid, and doesn't pay a lot of attention!

He's kind of... levitating. And producing rockets out of thin air. It was meant to be like that, right?

As a side note: i don't take any damage from standard gasbag projectiles. Why? Cyborg Suit?

EDIT: About caping the difficulty. Well, fast projectiles ARE iritating. But the game seems balanced if you proceed carefully.
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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 13 Feb 2009, 22:33

Yep it is intended to be like that; it's EXU after all. His collision size is like two or three times bigger than he is, so you can telefrag him before you even get that close.
Jethro wrote:As a side note: i don't take any damage from standard gasbag projectiles. Why? Cyborg Suit?

Uh, do you have any other armor? A Fire Helm, perhaps? The Cyborg Suit is literally not supposed to do ANYTHING; I only added it because UA pursuaded me to for his own nefarious purposes. I have no idea what he wanted it for, but it's not supposed to protect you at all! :P

[Edit] Shit, it expands the Asbestos Suit, which protects you from Burned damage. I'll fix this.

For now, just type "killall exu.cyborgsuit" in the console to delete it.

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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 00:00

With all those flares in the game, you should consider adding one of these!

Image

Or alternatively make them easier to fling. Right now the velocity isn't very high and they're flung kinda low, so it's hard to hit holes! I think slightly boosting their speed and making them appear from, say, the player's head would be adequate.
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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 00:02

Haha believe me, I want a flare gun so bad. I just don't have the slightest clue how to make a weapon deploy inventory items.

Also, you can throw flares a lot farther if you run and jump forward or, even better, dodge forward when you toss. It's not perfect, but it's better than just dropping them at your feet and blowing your nuts off. Using flares is tricky, though.

If it becomes possible to make a flare gun, I can guarantee it will be added as a weapon you find in Map 16 or so.

User avatar TheIronKnuckle
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 00:54

Waffnuffly wrote:Damn, that's... a pretty good point you bring up, Stak. Yes, I have had some people playtest it on Medium, but not enough, and no one has really given me comprehensive feedback on every map on Easy, so... I don't have much knowledge of how it works for those difficulties.

I hate to admit it, but you may be right. I never really thought of it that way. Damn. Now I kinda feel like this whole project is a giant failure. I don't really know how to react to that or explain it or anything.



Shit.


How would you go about solving this? What do you think needs to be changed?

[Edit] Basically, you're just saying the game is too hard on Easy, right? For a new player, it's still too overwhelming? So what would help, just adding shit tons more health, armor, and ammo? It sounds like this would fix it, making the player stupidly overpowered.

I never wanted Easy to be a CAKEWALK--EXU is supposed to be harder than the average SP mod--but if it's too hard to enjoy even on Easy, something definitely needs to change. More inventory is my first reaction.

woah don't beat yourself up! The game is too hard, yes.... But that doesn't mean it's a failure, despite the fact that this is one of the hardest mods i've played, i'm still enjoying it.

My feedback... I love the fact that there are a million enemies to kill, so please don't cut down on the number of them for the easy and medium difficulties. The amount we have now is fine, but maybe more health, armour, battle flares and ammo is in demand. Also, it could be a good idea to reduce the health of the monsters instead of the quantity.
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User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 02:04

Waffnuffly wrote:I'm working on a global damage and speed nerf for Easy and Medium (different for each one, of course) difficulty. I'll have something for you guys to try out in a little bit, but I don't expect this alone to fix everything. It's going to take a lot more aggressive difficulty filtering in the maps on my part to get the balance just right, but from what I'm reading, you guys on Easy REALLY hate the fast projectiles, right? I'll work on getting them more to a lower speed where you don't have to have lightning reflexes to avoid them.


Waff.. I have an even better idea.. something I actually stumbled upon while I was playing (it occurred to me in the passage remake).

I have absolutely no freaking idea why this happened.. but when I finished the map before passage.. everything became "slow motion". I seriously thought that this was part of the mod and you did that on purpose... but then.. after I beat the passage map (entirely in slow motion), I realized that that couldn't have been done on purpose. So I reloaded the passage map and low and behold... it wasn't in slomo mode. Why this happened? I have no idea....

but what I did realize.. is that slomo makes the mod a hell of alot easier......so this is what I'm proposing:

make an inventory item that "slows down time" (ie slomo 0 command in console). This can be a rechargeable item that can be used when the player is overwhelmed with hordes of enemies at any given time. This way, when the mod gets to difficult you can activate slomo and take everything at a moderate pace. I'm not sure exactly how this would be executed.. but I think it would definitely work well with the new players.

When I played passage in slomo I really started to understand how everything added up from the mappers perspective:

1. which gun I should be using at what time (against what monster)
2. how to conserve on ammo and health
3. when to back down in a safe area and use an inventory flare item

Surprisingly, doing these things in slow motion made me a better player at normal speed.
Last edited by jackrabbit on 14 Feb 2009, 02:11, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 02:11

Well, thats an interesting idea, but for one thing, I am not sure if something like that is possible to make, and I also don't know if it would really make the gameplay fairer on lower difficulties. It's an interesting idea, though, but the bullet-time type stuff I'm just not sure should end up in EXU. I think global speed and damage nerfs (currently, all projectiles do 80% damage on Easy) is a good start, though. For speed nerfs, I think I'll start with 75% speed on Easy, and maybe 85-90% on Medium. Global speed reduction is a lot more complicated than damage, though.

I'm also not planning on cutting down on the number of enemies to any large extent for lower difficulties, either. I will, instead, be replacing some of the tougher ones with weaker variants (as I have already in a lot of maps), and I will be making some of them have a lower OddsOfAppearing for Easy and Medium only.

Also, Jackrabbit, the slowdown you experienced sounds more like CPU lag to me. Did you have some other processes start going? Maybe an updater or something?

User avatar Stakhanov
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 05:00

Well it looks like rushing can work to an extent , at least on easy mode. Better than trying to clear the map of enemies and die halfway through , anyway. I got lucky as the fuckoff mercenary's rocket threw me right next to the mine entrance , but I never expected it to feature a supercharger that would instantly kill me. Yes , a 255 melee damage , unkillable monster in a tight corridor on easy difficulty. Seriously.

I did some testing , with static health / EXU2's weapons in EXU-NyLeve. The problem isn't the lack of health regen , or the weapon's damage level (piddledoper and shitgun are more effective than their excessive counterparts , the pulse rifle and bio rifle respectively) as I could take my time to scour the entire map and purge it of its already impressive monster population , on medium mode. Damage taken was a slow trickle unless I messed up big time , gibs flew all over the place , and fights that required cover usage weren't too frequent. I thought flares or the extractor would be redundant , too.

Nothing like EXU2-HugeHam where health and armor drop like a rock in most fights , no matter what you do. The solution looks simple to me - change monsters to be a little less unfair ? Just enough to make the game playable.

User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 06:57

lso, Jackrabbit, the slowdown you experienced sounds more like CPU lag to me. Did you have some other processes start going? Maybe an updater or something?


Could very well be that... all I know is that after it happened I was like "dude.. I can use that to my advantage", and in certain areas where I would die and have to reload I would slomo 0 for maybe a minute or so and then go back to slomo 1 when the area was partially clear. As I got further in the pack though, I ended up using my battle flares more to clear out those difficult areas instead of using slomo

I did use slomo cheat on the very last map though. The part after you pick up the icon of sin. That part is just fucking hard. lol

It's an interesting idea, though, but the bullet-time type stuff I'm just not sure should end up in EXU.

So you don't think the "slow bullet time" would fit inside EXU? I think it would be a great addon to slow down time in this mod in particular (since everything is always moving fast). It makes for some definitely interesting gameplay.

I will say that I did not use Fly, Ghost, God or Rmode cheats (well.. I used rmode 2 for some of darkness and blackness) but that was my own fault.. I should have conserved my searchlight charge longer. In demo 2.. I used a bunch of cheats lol (but I also played it on Medium).

I do think Stakanov has a good point though that if you keep adding up hitpoints and armor that the game will eventually break and become dull. It will be definitely hard at this point to make the second half of the mod avoiding that issue. So, its probably better to fix the first part and maybe add some cool "unhuman" features to the game so players can have a distinct advantage earlier on, which will maybe rub off quite a bit in the second half of the campaign (making it harder without adding more hit points/armor. You are the Chosen One after all....

superpowers is the way to go :tup: :tup: :tup: ( Hey! didn't you play dead space :D ) [as a side note: if you are short on help with coding/unrealscript, myself and a few others might be able to give a helping hand for this project]

Loke
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 15:08

Haha wow, forget what I said about the last map being easy! After you've picked up the demon thingy (sorry, forgot the name!) shit really started to hit the fan.
Of course the damage amplifier made things a bit easier, at least at the first part, but personally I think there's just too many friggin' Archdemons here especially at the last damage amplifier you pick up when both Archdemons and thousands of lesser enemies spawn all around you. Even if you're lucky enough to survive the first wave of enemies the Archdemons will toss you around like there was no tomorrow, and in the worst case right into the damn lava. Instant death right there.

Also playing this bit would probably be easier if it weren't for the atrocious framerate that occur because of all the enemies and, if you're unlucky enough, if a few of the lesser demons start a monster infighting with the Archdemons spamming a million projectiles all over the map.

Hate to admit it but I used Godmode for this very last part because of that; first time I cheated in the otherwise very impressive demo. :/

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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 15:30

I don't think it's to hard at all. Infact, I haven't died once. (Ok so I'm playing on Easy, but I still started another game on Unreal mode and so far I'm doing fine)

Don't beat yourself up Waffnuffly...I think you did great with this project :D

Oh btw, I meant to ask you before: I really like the DnB music you have in the first level....who's it by?
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User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 16:55

Haha, OK, wow, guys, I'm not going to give the player 10,000 health and 50,000,000 armor to make the game easier! The most health you will ever get is 999, and the most armor you will ever get in the entire campaign probably won't surpass 100,000 (and believe me, this is an EXTREME amount; you can survive *several* Archdemons hellblasting you over and over with this). You still can't survive an LRPC shot with this, though. ;)

I suggested placing more INVENTORY, health and armor and ammo pickups, for Easy and Medium, since some people seem to run low on health and ammo. I will probably do this, but only if a global damage nerf and more extensive filtering doesn't help first. I am also working on filtering out the harder pawns and replacing them with easier ones.


Stakhanov: the Fuckoff Mercenary has since been replaced with a Fuckoff Krall (for Easy and Medium) which doesn't have a rapidfire missile launcher. Are you sure you have the latest maps? Also, lol, you landing right next to a Super Charger (it actually does a lot more than 255 damage... it's 255 * 16 or so :D ) is just bad luck! There are some really special pawns like that, but their OddsOfAppearing is around 1-5%! :P Also, Super Chargers are NOT unkillable! Telefrag the bastards! :P

[Edit] Ahahaha oh my god, that was one of the two super-rare Super Chargers that drop a BARREL 'O SUNS if you kill it (telefragging is easy). This would have enabled you to literally wipe out 75% of map 3 with one toss of the alt fire. :P It was set to 5%, but I changed it to 1% because wow, that is just too good!

You're right about too many unfair fights on Easy, though. I'm working on filtering them. This v4 Patch coming up is going to have a LOT of map changes!


jackrabbit: Heh, I've got a good amount of UScript help in UA, but thanks for the offer :) And yeah of course I remember stasis from Dead Space, but I just never have liked bullet time mechanics. I absolutely hated Max Payne because of it and I really don't want to go that route in EXU; it just feels too artificial (yeah, even in a mod as absurd as EXU, I STILL don't like time dilation :P ), so I'm avoiding that as best as I can. I am sure there are ways to make the game more fair on Easy and Medium without going to those lengths.


Loke: Yeah I have been trying to make the phase in Map 15 near the end easier, but I think I forgot to disable some of the spawnpoints. Believe me, that fight is a lot easier when all the Archdemons spawn in the same place and not behind you. When you have Archdemons closing in from two sides, it is too much to handle. But when they are all in one place, you can wipe out the hordes and then focus on Contact Beaming them one by one.


Shivaxi: Well, if you find it easy enough, great! But don't forget that you might have more skill playing the game than some people. There's nothing wrong with not being good at the game; I want people who have never played an FPS before to at least be able to beat each level with enough thought and patience, but right now, it's just too hard even for people who have been playing Unreal a long time to beat it enjoyably. Easy mode is supposed to be totally doable and fun, even if it is still more challenging than other mods, so I still have my work cut out for me.

Also, the music in Map 1 is from System Shock 2 (Hydroponics B&C).




v4 Patch will probably come out in a few days. For now, guys, if you are having trouble, take a break and just wait for the changes :)
Last edited by Buff Skeleton on 15 Feb 2009, 00:11, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar Buff Skeleton
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 18:15

CURRENT PATCH NOTES for v4:

- uelite now lets you set the ParticleDensity to -1 to disable particles outright
- Fix for Map 11's crash bug
- Fixed Cyborg Suit to remove its protection types
- Recoded RFPC for better netplay and performance in general
- Fixed Barrel 'o Fun / Barrel 'o Suns so it doesn't instantly auto-fire when selected

- Global: Reduced all damage a player takes by 20% on Easy, 10% on Medium
- Global: Reduced all projectile speeds (EXCEPT for the Player's) by 25% on Easy, 10% on Medium

- Map 1: Replaced Psycho Maint/Sec/Assault Brutes with non-Psycho (non-rapidfire) variants for Easy
- Map 1: Reduced the number of Midwifes a bit for Easy
- Map 1: Fixed the Piddlepack in the Med Lab so it appears on all difficulties (sorry sana, you were right before! There IS one in there, but it was filtered improperly)

- Map 2: Replaced Psycho Security Brute outside the Rikers with non-Psycho version for Easy and Medium
- Map 2: Filtered all (2) Missile Mercenaries out of Easy difficulty
- Map 2: Adjusted ultra-rare Super Charger OddsOfAppearing to make it rarer
- Set the two Boss Pupae to drop a Shit Canister and an Energizer Ball when killed

- Map 3: Filtered out one of the two Missile Mercenaries on the bridge on Easy
- Map 3: Filtered out Flak Turret Brute on the bridge on Easy
- Map 3: Added a little bit more health in some areas on Easy
- Map 3: Filtered out a Slimer Skaarj on Easy and replaced it with 2 Turbo Skaarj Lords
- Map 3: Filtered out Nuclear Gasbag on Easy; replaced with Demon Gasbag MP (drops an Energizer Ball)

- Map 4: Replaced several guard monsters (Sky Tentacles, Turbo Mercenary Elites, etc) with weaker versions of themselves for Easy and Medium (1/2 to 2/3 the health)
- Map 4: Filtered out some more misc. enemies for Easy, just a handful in certain tight spots
- Map 4: Removed PsychoMaintBrute from the bridge on Easy and Medium (the tiny one)

- Map 5: Replaced first two Lunatics with Fire Brutes on Easy and Medium
- Map 5: Filtered out two of the first four Demon Brutes on Easy
- Map 5: Filtered out two of the four Shock SWAT on Easy
- Map 5: Added some EXU Thighpads for Easy right outside the temple structure (where the Lunatics were)
- Map 5: Replaced Psycho Secbrute with normal one in the Ice Cube pool
- Map 5: Added some extra ammo for the EnergyAR and Shitgun in the same room

- Map 6: Added some Energizer Balls around the Torch of Tranquility on Easy
- Map 6: Eliminated TurboMercenaryElite spawners on Easy after Phase 1

- Map 7: Filtered out one of the Freeze Brutes on patrol at the start on Easy
- Map 7: Added an EXU Armor at the top of the elevator shaft, just outside the door, on Easy
- Map 7: Added some more EnergyAR ammo and Hyper Cells on Easy and Medium near the end of the map

- Map 8: Cut all Sky Tentacles' health by 1/3 for Easy
- Map 8: Filtered out both Freeze Brutes near the big HOM at the start on Easy and Medium
- Map 8: Filtered out 2 of the 4 Freeze Mercenaries in the waterless room with one of the three buttons
- Map 8: Added an EXU Armor for Easy and Medium near these guys down below
- Map 8: Filtered out some low-OddsOfAppearing Freeze Krall on Easy

- No changes to Map 9; it's fairly simple, and it already has a Blood Keg and Frost Armor, so I don't know what more could possibly make it easier.

- Map 10: Filtered out many Demon Commandos (except for single, easily-sighted ones) on Easy
- Map 10: Filtered out all Plasma Mercenaries on Easy
- Map 10: Removed a handful of Flying Squids on Easy, a couple on Medium
- Map 10: Removed some Jerk Mercs (the ones that send you flying) on Easy
- Map 10: Removed Shit Mercenary Elites on Easy; replaced with regular Shit Mercenaries
- Map 10: Added some extra armor for Easy and Medium to certain choice spots
- Map 10: Added an extra EXU Invisibility for Easy players in one spot; replaced the original one with EXU Invisbility so you can activate and deactivate it
- Map 10: Added extra EnergyAR, Shitgun, and Hyper Flakker ammo for Easy/Medium

- Map 11: Filtered out partially-damaged Frost Armor on Easy; replaced it with a full-charge Frost Armor on the ground (easier to get)
- Map 11: Filtered out a Demon Mercenary on Easy
- Map 11: Added an EXU Shieldbelt near the Advanced Doom Orb room
- Map 11: Added an EXU Shieldbelt in the Archdemon Cave

- Map 12: Filtered out a Flak Brute in a tight area on Easy and Medium
- Map 12: Filtered out a couple Pupae Bombardiers on Easy
- Map 12: Stuck 7 more beans in the Contact Beam on Easy and Medium
- Map 12: Filtered out both Pulse Mercenaries on Easy and one on Medium
- Map 12: Filtered out all Nuclear Skaarj on Easy
- Map 12: ADDED a Burster Brute for Hard and Unreal only

- Map 13: Added a Firestorm Generator with 1/4 charge (it's all you need) right outside THE PITCH BLACK ROOM (as UA aptly named it) for Easy and Medium

- Map 14: No changes

- Map 15: Deleted rear Archdemon spawnpoints in the fourth battle phase near the end of the map where the lava is to your left (when you get the Ultrabelt) to reduce the chances of you falling into the lava. Now, Archdemons only spawn along the cliff wall near the UMS-Chantilly wreck.
- Map 15: Filtered out one of the Skaarj Missile spawners for Easy and at all phases of the battle. This effectively cuts the number of Skaarj in half.
- Map 15: Filtered out the second Lavatitan Dump on Easy and Medium
- Map 15: Put an extra missile in the Screamer left for you at the end of the level (so there's 2 in it)
Last edited by Buff Skeleton on 15 Feb 2009, 17:13, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar jackrabbit
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Post Posted: 14 Feb 2009, 18:28

I'll definitely play it again on easy to test stuff out and give feedback :B :tup:

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