[u1] ShamuQuest

[Delacroix]

You are passing through a mine which by itself has to feel a BIT claustrophobic, when digging through ground you are not making tunnels the size of Kansas, you only get the resources required, not blow open a hole like there is no tomorrow and leave open a space of sick size. Yes, mines will be a tad smaller in size, but still, there are large rooms in there. Screenshots will not show the entire truth, you need to see this for yourselves.

As for the caverns, for example, due to them being "drilled" naturally by water and other stuff, they will be a lot... hmmm, wider? You know what I mean.

[Doublez-Down]

lol....coming from a past DM mapper, I find it ironic that a 2112 length brush is now considered 'confined'

but yeah compared to Chico's stuff...I guess it's all relative though.

[Jet v4.3.5]

Caves. Caaaves. Must have caves. Big ones in the limestone. Things that the main mine areas connect to, or that you can go to in some sort of lift extending down from the main part of the mine where they do mining. Mining equipment set in logical places should look nice if you can pull it off nicely. Of course, if a cave or two like this doesn't fit for you, than don't do it unless it's absolutely boring without it (and if it is, there's probably some enhancing you need to do in the main mine before you even consider a large mining cave).

[Buff Skeleton]

lol....coming from a past DM mapper, I find it ironic that a 2112 length brush is now considered 'confined'

That IS rather small, actually. Try 8192-16384+ and then we're talking big.

You are passing through a mine which by itself has to feel a BIT claustrophobic, when digging through ground you are not making tunnels the size of Kansas,

No. No, no a mine does not have to feel claustrophobic. Why artificially limit yourself to established archetypes just because a bajillion other maps have? Do something different and creative, not "mine -> open Nali town -> narrow mountain pass -> old castle/dungeon thing -> narrow mountain pass / magic teleporter -> Skaarj facility," etc. Booooooring. It's been done way too many times already.

WAR-PowerSurge in UT3 is a pretty perfect example of a huge, open cave environment. And yes, that kind of map IS possible in this engine; it just takes careful planning and good use of geometry. There's also The Sky Shard, one of its first maps I think - GIANT cave. And that was oooooooooold and made by a much more noobish mapper.

Why not do some kind of open excavation in a massive cave where the Skaarj are strip-mining the walls? You could have all sorts of cool riggings and stuff suspended from the ceiling or raised up on scaffolding. Not another generic "room-corridor-room" mine with lava in arbitrary places. Hell, it doesn't even have to be an enclosed cave; it could be half-way open to the sky. Think like Eternal Cave but on a much more massive scale.

Seriously, don't ever limit yourself to something just because that's how other maps did it. Try something new and interesting. And don't think that because you're expanding Shamuquest that you have to do X Y and Z, either. You aren't Chicoverde; you are not making his maps. You are continuing them. If you want this project to be well-received, you should put your own creativity into it. Otherwise, you're going to release it to an audience that is already skeptical since you decided to finish someone ELSE's work, and you're only going to get disappointment if you give people something they've already seen dozens of times before.

Be unique. Come up with something different, something not even Chico'a maps had. Seriously.

[Delacroix]

Actually, you made me thinking... Damnation. Damnation had such a mine that you described. Oh, this is going to be... sweet... I think I just got some ideas, now on to passing them to DD

[ElectricIce]

I recall an sp that had this huge mine complex. Just can't remember which it was.

[UB_]

I recall an sp that had this huge mine complex. Just can't remember which it was.

I remember a mine map from Hard Crash but I'm not really sure.

[Doublez-Down]

Taking all ideas to heart. The mine level itself is probably only halfway finished, as I envision it (hopefully Delacroix agress) being a big level. I'm having all kinds of fun with scripted events, cool triggered stuffs, movers everywhere, music changes, etc. So while I may not have the practice in the "grandiose" arena (or working on that large of a scale without it feeling empty), I'm hopefully making up for it in terms of an interactive environment instead of just going from room to room fighting things.

[Hellscrag]

What I do know is that "grandiose" can't really be retrofitted, but try thinking of your next maps in terms of a whole "place" rather than a series of locations - that's pretty much the essence of my favourite bit of jargon, "Conceptual Grandness". A gigantic cave, for example, which you revisit in various different and interesting ways over the course of the level, would make a great backdrop for a mine.

[Jet v4.3.5]

Structures high off the floor of the cave that you have to get to by leaving the cave one way and entering it through another, maybe. Make sure that you're not just satisfying your own architectural goals, but also making the concept of location a much more satisfying effort, where, when you are done, you've created a very comfortable yet unique approach to a level that makes this mine important and shows it's own background through design rather than being a CliffyB, Deja Vu, or ONP mine that's been rearranged in a different but still very unoriginal way. Oh yeah, I never got the whole concept of a mine right in Unreal, seeing as how most of them were more of a building rather than an actual mine. RtNP/Unreal Beta's Foundry levels really aren't like real mines. I hardly ever saw a rock face from which a Nali could have been mining for the skaarj, just a lot of metal, pipes, and traps. I've always wanted to see a realistic, ominous mine rather than what many of Unreal's mine maps show, like Waff's Rajigar reduxes. The mood was VASTLY different with only a few minor (some major) changes. Pulling off a cave-based mine is a good idea, and you have a wonderful opportunity to do just that now if you feel ambitious enough about it.

[ElectricIce]

I recall an sp that had this huge mine complex. Just can't remember which it was.

I remember a mine map from Hard Crash but I'm not really sure.

It might be from there. I need to somehow get it again.

[Delacroix]

editor Dave has been possessed by my vengeful spir.... errr, go back, wrong movie... has volunteered for the two mountain levels. Startpost updated.

[Buff Skeleton]

Delacroix, think you could clean up the first post and make it conform to the Upcoming Maps template?

[Hellscrag]

Delacroix, think you could clean up the first post and make it conform to the Upcoming Maps template?

We haven't been adhering slavishly to the template of late, but I would agree that this one has an overbearing impact on the page. A lot of info could be moved to Delacroix's second post (I could prune out my own post in between if it would help).

[Delacroix]

I have no idea which of the info should be moved. BTW, HybridZ has joined as a mapper and has taken Black Swamp for himself.